Hello Michael,

Yes indeed, it is sort of a quantization problem !

I have to output the data with long durations in order to have the right subdivision on import in Finale.
If I generate a midi file with the second (short notes) version, Finale won't be able to deal with it.

Imagine that in many case of course, the note values and positions are not all the equal as in my example...

But in any case, that kind of transform, "keep onsets but change durations" can be a very handy compositional and notational tool.

Best
Yan

This is something your DAW should do. Expecting Finale to provide a service that DAW's are supposed to do but can't is asking an awful lot. What DAW are you using to generate the import file for Finale?

what are you saying ? any daw -whatever it is- is not the problem here.
in this case, I didn't even use a daw to generate the midi file of my second line which is the one I would like Finale to be able to import right. It's not the point at all.

Since it cannot, I have to transform example 2 into example 1 first in order for finale to import the right note values.
Hence the duration problem : I need to get back to the durations of example 2 !

If I generate a midi file with notes of the value of 16ths notes of a quintuplet and mix them with some other note values like sextuplets, finale won't be able to transcribe it.

Then what you seem to want--instead of the ability to shorten notes--is for Finale to be able to import MIDI with more complex tuplets than it does now.

Yes and.. no.
We have many examples in music literature of lines of long values playing along the same lines with shorter values.
A transform feature like that is a plus in terms of notation capability and could find it's way in the plugin section.
And don't forget that the way I wrote the 16th notes rests in my example is not traditional, as it shows the subdivisions that is left over in accordance with the inner pulses logic from removing the ties. I'm not sure quantization improvement would allow me do have this.

ps
and why are you so judgy about this ?

> "and why are you so judgy about this ?"

Primarily because the more clarity we (as a community) can bring to your request--or aspects of it--and the more we (as a community) can reduce it to something feasible and practical for a wide range of users, the more likely your idea has of eventually making it into the program.

It seems to me that JW Change or TG Tools Pro would be able to do this, but I haven't been able to figure it out. I tried JW Change for durations, but it wouldn't add in the rests after changing them to 16ths, same as Finale's Change>Note Durations.

TG Tools Modify>Special Modifications I thought would do it, but it didn't seem to work. I may have simply misunderstood how the plugin works. Maybe you or someone who knows the plugins better than I do can help.

On the plus side, if you create the notation you want manually for a passage and that passage subsequently repeats anywhere else, you can use JW Rhythm Copy to copy only the note lengths to the new passage, even if the pitches are different.

Christopher,

Thank you for trying that..
I did some extensive testing with the tools you mention to resolve situations like this, but it is just not possible.
That is why I proposed the feature request or plugin creation.

I remember posting on the old MM forum under plugin development to propose a pay job for this...

best
Yan

Hi Yan:

Interesting discussion. In your example, it is straight-forward that notes should "consume" all rests. What about this one? I'm guessing you'd want to define the size of the bucket and intelligently handle tuplets, et.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Michael Johnson
VP, Professional Notation
MakeMusic

Hello Michael

mmm, your example is tough !

We are starting from very small note durations.
so I guess I would want that (with settings 1/32 1/12)

or that (with settings 1/16 1/12)

but of course this would be better for readability (also with dotted 8th rests if permitted)

In my case, I always have values that group in a certain number of subdivisions in polyrhythmic fashion; at some point, the onset will fall on a beat.
Hence the tied notes at some point in many cases...
And it all depends if your are quantizing a midi file or just changing note duration of an already written out passage.

I don't know how I would be able to quantize if the input midi file was the lower staff of this example
That's why I often start with the upper staff durations. Finale will get it done better (even with some mistakes)

Best
Yan

Hi Yan:

Thank you for the further clarification. Duly noted. I'm curious what others think of this request, typical workflows, and the problem you're trying to solve.

Cheers,

Michael Johnson

VP, Professional Notation

MakeMusic

Hello Yan,

did you solve the problem?

Alessandro Melchiorre :)

Yes, but by HAND !

Ciao Alessandro !!
Saluti!

Yan

THIS IS URGENTLY NEEDED!

Some have claimed this need is properly handled by the DAW one exports MIDI from. This is bogus for the following reasons:

1. the same need will arise if one enters notes into Finale manually and then CHANGES ONE'S MIND, AS COMPOSERS DO! and decides to notate, say quarter notes as 8ths followed by an 8th rest. Or vice versa.
2. Finale's Change Duration tool is misnamed. You would be ashamed of it and fix it if you named it by what it does: Finale's Change Duration and Rhythm Tool.

If the issue is MIDI Import, paying attention to Quantization Settings and More Quantization Settings windows should help.

http://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/Finale2014Win/Content/Finale/QUANTMORESETTINGS.htm 

http://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/Finale2014Win/Content/Finale/QUANTIZATION.htm 

http://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/Finale2014Win/Content/Finale/MIDI_files.htm

Thanks for responding, but I am not sure I made the issue understood:

Again, the issue is NOT MIDI Import, since the need to change durations can arise at any point in the notation process.

Even if all entries are made in Finale, after a rehearsal, or even after further reflection, you might well want to change many hundreds of quarter notes with staccato marks into eighths followed by eighth rests. This is not possible in Finale - unless you do them ONE AT A TIME, as Yan, the user I referenced above had to do when he reported this need 10 years ago.

Yes, you have been quite clear, and you do not have to convince other users here of what you want, only the developers of Finale (who have not thought it worth pursuing in ten years. You could submit a request using the link at the top of the page, but your point has been made here.

if you go to midi tool and percent alter the note durations to let's say 50% and then you retranscribe you get what you want...

sort of a work around but quite quick

Brilliant, Alessandro! Now, why doesn’t there seem to be a way to do it in the notation universe?

Should be not so difficult for a developer... Say it loud!

Again, the issue is NOT MIDI Import, 

But the solution is which is why I posted the links I did. As Alessandro posted, it’s quick and easy.

I don’t know about a plug-in but a script could be written to export the MIDI and import into a new document shortened as you like. Faster to do it manually, however. I can see the usefulness of a plug-in but someone has to determine that the time to write it would be justified.

MM would have to see a demand for this feature to go further. Despite your insistence that composers are always changing their minds, I can’t see myself using this function should it be added. But then I was doing this in ink on paper 20 years before the first release of Finale. 

I've "retranscribed" before, and even exported to MIDI and re-imported to get around editing limitations, but one thing to know is that either of those processes erases articulations, slurs, hairpins, and expressions like dynamics. That could be a pain to deal with, or you could copy them from the source document after importation. But I don't do that much any more because of the problems.

As I said in a previous reply, I usually change one passage manually and use JW Rhythm Copy to copy the changed notation to other staves—when the notation repeats, that is!

an update...

in TgTools Modify/rests/split notes/ divide notes... by inserting rests

no MIDI!

FANTASTIC! Now we need to tell the Finale techs about this! Even after consulting other techs at Makemusic, my tech told me it was impossible. A smart guy on a Forum suggested a plugin that turned out not to have this feature.

Maybe use should call it "Change Durations" instead of putting it in a menu named "Rests".

I think composers are more concerned with notes than rests, and your plugin does EXACTLY what a "Change Duration" plugin should do!

Maybe add ability to create durations other than 'halves"? 1/3 and 1/5 would be useful.

There are a number of plug-ins that could use better, more descriptive names. Occasionally, we get one re-named. Since this one is TG Tools, lobbying the developer wouldn’t be a bad idea. I’d post a link but I’m in an airport after a 10 hour flight (should have been 5) and I’m tired.

I did write to Tobias (tgtools developer)

Thanks to Mike and Alessandro! It takes a village - and it seems there is one! (Next up - improving air transport between villages for Mike!)

When one village was SFO and the other JFK and a whole lot of bad weather…

It’s ok. Seeing La Traviata at The Met tonight. We’re 40+ year season ticket holders at San Francisco but have never been to Lincoln Center or Carnegie Hall where friends are performing Friday. 60+ years later, music is still an adventure!