I have been frustrated by the same thing.  I place a bowed tremolo mark on a note and get a pizz. sound or a staccato.  Makes me regret making the upgrade from GPO 4.  I got what I asked for there.  Please make a fix for this Makemusic.

GPO5 is OK, but some of the settings on the Finale side seem to have been rushed and not done properly. 

We sometimes get conflicts between the old Human Playback techniques from GPO4, and the new ones that came with GPO5.  Also, some of the entries for the new GPO5 are a bit odd.  Fortunately, it's easy enough to fix.

I could simply upload a template (and I might do this in the future after running some tests and figuring out how), but I think it's important to walk through some of the steps so you'll understand a bit more about how Finale does score translation and playback. 

Be aware that in Finale, you can enter playback instructions as auto-translating "Techniques" in "Human Playback", OR, you can assign them directly to symbols and text patterns on an 'as need' basis for a more manual control over a stave's corresponding instrument.  This is typically done by selecting an object (text, articulation, symbol, etc), and right clicking it, and then manipulating the settings under, "...Expression Definition".

First, lets make some corrections for the new Orchestral Strings and get them working/sounding a little better.

1.  In Edit/Preferences/Human Playback:  Disable all the Legacy string Techniques.  This is done by toggling the check marks off in the  "Active Column".  Later we'll correct the filters in these techniques so they'll no longer 'conflict' with the new GPO5 "Orchestral Strings" instruments.  To be honest, I'll have to sit down and sort it out myself....this thread is to simply give some clues on where to start 'mastering' how Finale translates and plays back scores.

2.  Scroll down to the GPO5: 1st Violins Section and unfold this group of techniques by clicking the east-pointing black triangle in the left most column.

The first thing we want to do is  change the default sample offset for this violin section to get cleaner attacks that will be more on the beat.  So, Click the "Standard (arco)" techniqe and add a CC119 controller with a value of 127.  While we're in there, go ahead and highlight the Multiple: Filter with your mouse and tap ctrl-c to make a copy of it in your clipboard (similar to the way you would highlight copy text in a text editor).  We might need this filter information later...

Repeat the process of adding a CC119 to all of the 'sustains', such as HeavyVib.

3.  Next we're going to add a couple of techniques so we can take advantage of the legato switch that GPO5 provides.  The goal is to make it so Finale will engage CC68 during 'slurred' phrases automatically.  I'm also implementing a slight bit of portamento for slurs in this particular example.

a.  While your "Standard (arco)" technique is highlighted, Click the "New Technique" button twice.  You should find that you've now got two "New Technique" entries above your "Standard (arco)" technique.

b.  Double click the name field for your first "New Technique" and give it a new name, "Standard (No Legato).

c.  Set the Instrument to:  Violin.

d.  Set the Technique to:  "Standard (Sustained)"

e.  Set the Filter to to "Multi" and paste the contents of your clipboard that me made earlier into the field.

f.  For Action 1, enter a CC68, with a value of 0.

g.  For Action 2, enter a CC20, with a value of 0.  (This disengages any portamento that you might set for legato passages [notes living under slurs] which we'll set in our next technique.  If you don't want automatic portamento in slurred phrases then don't set the "Action 2" fields at all, in this step, nor the next).

This completed technique should look something like this when completed.

4.  Next we'll somewhat repeat everything in step 3 to convert our second "New Technique" into a "Legato" on technique.  Note that I've chosen to implement a little bit of portamento for slurred pharases.  If you don't want this, then do not enter the Controller 20 stuff in "Action 2".

5.  Next, lets take care of the attack phase.  Out of the box, these strings seem to lag behind the beat because of the default sample offset, but we can tighten this up a bit by adding CC119,127 to all of our acrco bowing techniques.  Do this for all of your section and solo GPO5 (Orchestral Strings) instruments.  Here you can see that I've done this for the "Standard (arco)" and "HeavyVib" techniques.

6.  Our alternate articulations can be very dependent on a given score.  You'll constant tweak these, or add new ones as needed in future projects.

Essentially, if you want Finale to attempt to use an articulation automatically, then give it an appropriate setting with the "Technique" field.  If you want it to be manually induced using text in your score, then set the "Technique:" field to "Custom Text" and enter the appropriate filter.

Just as an example, we'll go ahead and assign our pizzicato, staccato, spiccato, and Martele articulations for auto translation.  Notice how I put multi filters for our specific Garritan instrument in the 'auto translating' entries.  This is important, otherwise we could get all sorts of strange things happening with mixed and matched instrument sets.

7.  You'll need to repeat all the steps 1 - 6 for your other GPO5 strings.  Note that the "2nd Violins" have some interesting experimental stuff out of the box that can sound rather strange.  Personally, I've set mine to be exactly like we did the 2st Violins above.  Do experiment and try things :)

8.  To fix your support for the Legacy strings, I'll have to come back and offer a post after a bit of thought, trial, and error.  At this point I can say with certainty that it does sometimes conflict with the new GPO5 stuff if enabled.  I know all it needs is the right filters......will update this thread on that later.

Have a look at this Score.  It includes modified Human Playback Techniques.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-9pjh4Xl8gsUFZYUm80d1lCT1U

Hopefully they saved as part of the score, and you should be able to import this profile to your own setup by going into "Edit/Preferences/Human Playback" and toggling the "Attach to" check box off.  If that doesn't make a copy of the profile in your Human Playback Preferences Set, please let me know and I'll make a bit of xml avilable that can be pasted into your  "preferences.humanplayback.xml" file.

I just realized I forgot to attach the version that includes switches for Legacy Solo Strings.

As of 10pm CST on 5/11/2017 the link above has been updated with a fixed version.

Also note, that for some scores when using mutes on the Legacy Strings, you might need to disable the alternate Up and Down Bow techniques.  It's usually not a problem but if you have a score that keeps triggering unmuted key-switches for staccato or spicatto notes, then simply toggle off the Up/Down Bow Techniques, or change them to "Custom Text".

I downloaded your posted files and when I tried to open I got a message that the file was created for Aria version 1.911 and I have 1.872 (the current version on the Garritan site).  Where did you get version 1.911?  If I use version 1.872 I need to reset the sounds.  Just to be sure, did you use The GPO5 solo strings or the GOS orchestral strings?  I am guessing the latter but would like to be sure.

First look in the info tab of ARIA.  If there is an update button click it.  If not, you can get the latest ARIA engine from here:

http://ariaengine.com/support/

The Scherzo is using the newer GPO5 Orchestral Solo Strings, but you can change things around in the Score Manager and experiment.

I think I need a definition of what you mean by legacy strings.  You don't mean GOS then do you?  I am a bit confused about this.  Ahh, upon reading I see you mean GPO 4 orchestral strings as legacy.

OK got the 1.911 update. Thanks.

Legacy Strings are the Section and Solo strings that also exist in GPO4.  These work and sound just like GPO4 strings.

GPO5 includes a whole new slate of string instruments under the "Garritan Orchestral Strings" directory.

Legacy

GPO Solo Strings

GPO Section Strings

Garritan Orchestral Strings (GOS)

The HP Profile I've provided also works with GPO4 by the techniques labeled (legacy).  GPO4 and GPO5 either one can respond to #lib#GPO filters.  Patch names for duplicate instruments are also the same.

If you take a look in ARIA itself, you'll notice a naming convention pattern.

Default Finale Bank:  Solo Violin 1 KS

GPO 4 and 5 (Legacy):  n-Solo Violin 1 KS

GPO 5 Orchestral Strings:  n-01 Violin 1 KS

When making your own filters, you can always get patch names by looking at the instrument slot in ARIA.

Brian,

I can't get the Key Switches to work at all on my files in Finale 25.

I downloaded your string quartet files, and they work perfectly. I can add pizz. and arco commands and they function correctly.

But when I copy your customized Human Playback Preferences GO5 file to another document of my own, the Key Switches don't work.

All the settings on my new file are identical with those on yours.

Any ideas?

Without having a closer look, the first thing that comes to mind is making sure to apply your Human Playback.  It seems to me that these things get embedded into the score when this is applied.  This way one could select a range of music, establish grooves and techniques, etc.  Later, you might apply something different to yet another section of music.

You seem to be able to apply some things non destructively on top of existing passes, as well as be able to delete things, etc.

Try experimenting with "Apply Human Playback" dialogue.

I just ran some updates here and my system is acting up with Finale right now, plus it's time for dinner.  I'll pop back on as soon I can (after deleting my plogue engine directory and a reboot) to give some more specific examples of where this dialogue is.  Meanwhile, see if you can find it, and experiment.

Up and running again.  The HP application to which I was referring in the previous post can be found by first clicking the MIDI tool, and then in the MIDI Tool menu choosing "Apply Human Playback".

Brian,

Thanks for your posts. Still can't get it working. Here's a file in which I copied and pasted measures from your string quartet example and added pizz. and arco. No joy.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7O4OACTQ2YzYk8tUnd4SUkwTkU/view

Brian,

OK, I figured it out. It's so simple, it's embarrassing.

The staff has to have the correct name assigned to it through the score manager.

Of course, this is never mentioned in Make Music's instructions.

Here's the file I sent you last night, with the name added, and it works.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7O4OACTQ2YzWHVYd3N2dXM5aUk/view

Thanks again for your help.

Cheers,

Jer

Glad you got it sorted.

I've tried to grab those links and I don't get access.

Also, be aware I've just given a template of sorts to sort out filtering issues I'd been having since installing GPO5.  Don't be shy about experimenting and changing/adding to them to suit your needs.  Don't forget that you can open HP preferences and disable things you do not like, "I.E.  If you don't want detache translations in the GOS First Violins, disable the detache technique (untick the check-box beside it, reapply HP in the MIDI tool) and it'll fall back to the sustain key switch instead), etc.

With GPO Legacy strings, if you get strange stuff with muted (con sord) strings, you might need to disable some of the upbow-downbow stuff.

For the GOS strings, it can often come in handy to use the MIDI tool to control the ARIA instruments directly with CC events.  It's also great that you can assign CC events, and all sorts of custom curves directly to symbols or text (bypassing the HP interpretation system).  So, learning that curve tool in Finale is worth it I think.

Sorry, I forgot to enable sharing. I don't often use Google Drive.

That's all a little advanced for me, but thanks much for all your expertise.

Hello Brian,Thanks a lot for your kind explain about Final ,I'm experiencing a same problem in GOP 5, my DAW is Reaper,All solo strings' KS

tremolo and trill are no working.For find out where is the problem,I only open  Aria player and play my midi keyborad (Nektar Impact LX 61)

without DAW, solo's tremolo and trill no work yet. I have reset my keyboard to factory setting, Hope your professional advice please. 

Parson...

Trills for the Legacy Garritan "GPO Solo" strings are not 'unmetered' samples like the ones for tutti section strings.  By unmetered/mesaured I mean that holding down a key plays a sample loop of a string section playing tremolos or trills.  These sorts of unmetered key-switches only occur in section string KS instruments.

The solo string instruments that have a trill key-switch instead use the double trigger method (play a second sample when the key is released).

Finale knows how to deal with these special trill types (special check boxes in the Finale's "Preferences-Human Playback - Garritan Tab" settings.  Finale can also automatically interpret trill marks for instruments that do not have any sort of trill key-switch.  If you export Finale playback to a MIDI File, it will faithfully add all of the MIDI events for whatever Instruments you have loaded in Finale to the exported file.

In a tracking DAW like Reaper, you'd simply need to be aware of how GPO Solo String trills/tremolos work if you wish to use them, and write (or record) in your tracks accordingly, or not use the key-switch and fully write (or record) out the trills instead.

As an example for doing a trill with a new GOS Solo Violin in a tracking DAW (These newer GOS solo violins do not have a trill key-switch).

1.  Use either the regular sustain, detache, martele, spiccato, or staccato key-switch and write out your entire trill note by note (try them all in the context of the written out trill and see which you like better for a given situation).

2.  If using the sustain key-switch, set CC119 to 127.  This will move the start start point several milliseconds later in the sample, thus removing the 'attack' phase.  This is my preferred method for most types of trills.

3.  Engage "Legato".  CC68@127 if you are using the "Notation" version of an instrument, or CC64@127 if you are using the "Standard" version.  This engages a cross-fade effect (with optional portamento using CC20) between concurrent notes as long as legato is engaged.  The amount of crossfade can't be remotely automated without tweaking your ARIA sfz and xml files, but you can set it for an instrument in the control panel by adjusting the Offset pot (around 50% is usually good for me).

An example of doing a trill with a Legacy GPO Solo Violin KS instrument that has a trill key-switch in a tracking DAW:

1.  Choose the trill key-switch.

2.  Write out the trill (or tremolo) in the MIDI track with the understanding that releasing the key triggers the second stroke of a trill.  For tremolo effects you could also use this same trill key-switch.  So essentially, if you wanted a full beat of 32nd note trills using the key-switch, you'd enter something like:

32nd note, 32nd rest, 32nd note, 32nd rest, 32nd note, 32nd rest, 32nd note, 32nd rest

An alternative method of doing trills in a tracking DAW with a Legacy GPO Solo Violin:

1.  Write out the trill in full in your MIDI track.

2.  Rather than using the trill key-switch, use the regular sustain, or the alternating short-bow key-switch.

3.  Engage legato (CC68@127 for Notation versions, or CC64@127 for Standard versions) during the trill.

When using a tracking DAW, it might actually be easier to use individual articulations loaded into their own ARIA slot than it is to try to use Key Switches.  One would simply maintain separate MIDI tracks/channels for each articulation type.  One nice thing about this sort of work-flow is that you can tweak out many variations of articulations directly in the ARIA Control panel and more or less leave them alone.  Just enter notes on the relevant track when you want a given articulation. 

Later, you can merge all the articulation tracks down to one if you like (but be sure to preserve their proper MIDI channels and have the track outputs set to broadcast over the original MIDI channels after the merge).  Under this sort of scenario it'd actually be possible to mix and match things you like from the legacy GPO and new GOS string libraries without the additional head-ache of managing key-switches and  untold numbers of CC automation lanes.

As an additional tip for tracking DAWs:  I'm not sure about Repaer, but many tracking DAWs have an assortment of MIDI ARP engine track inserts one can use to build a kind of 'automatic' tremolo or trill.  This might be worth exploring if you want to build up for yourself a lot of reusable trill and tremolo tracks that don't have to be extensively 'written out' note by note.

Very interesting thread!!!!

How do harmonics work with GPO 5?  I'm not seeing any Key Switches for Harmonics. . .

John,

For harmonics, the simplest method I can think of...you'll need to load them into a slot of ARIA and make a technique in HP to 'channel bounce'.

Hello Brian

Thank you for sharing your work.

I am using your playback profile. However, I still believe the legacy strings (GFF) still sound better.

MakeMusic should make a greater effort adjusting the program to the new sounds (GPO5).

Is there any news on this?

Thanks,

Pieter

Pieter,

No fresh news that I know of.

I agree that when it comes to composing stages in something like Finale, Sibelius, or Dorico, one gets a better sound with the tutti string stuff with less effort just using GIFF, GPO4, or the Legacy Strings (Same as GPO4) in GPO5.

To me, the new solo strings are much better for louder, faster, more aggressive modern pieces, but it takes some practice to learn how to control them.  I.E.  A fast and aggressive modern Concerto for Violin using the legacy solo violin can get lost in the mix...especially with fast runs.....where the new GOS solo violin can be tweaked out so there is less 'bow swell' effect throughout a fast run.

When doing mock-ups with a tracking DAW the new string stuff in GPO5 comes in handy, as it's easy to 'layer up', and mix and match things.  I.E. start out with a 1:1 MIDI file from Finale imported into something like CuBase...and 'build onto' it with various overlays/layers from the new Orchestral Strings content as needed.

To me (subjective opinion)....The value in GPO5 for Finale Users is mostly going to come from the new Pianos, Organs, Harps, the new "Small Group String Sections" and Choirs.  Personally, I don't typically bother much with the new Garritan Orchestral String sounds (Other than the new small groups...those sound pretty nice out of the box) until I move a project into a tracking DAW, at which point I clone tracks like crazy, layer up, blend, and just bring in/out the best sound for the job for a given note/passage as needed.  Also, in the tracking DAW we get nice 'controller lanes' where one can easily automate all those little dials and wheels in ARIA just by drawing dots and curves into a lane along the timeline....much less nerve racking, and less 'static' in nature than trying to make 'playing techniques' and attach them to 'notation and symbols'.

If I ever get time to go back and revisit my personal GPO5 soundsets for Sibelius, I'll most likely revert to the legacy strings as defaults since I end up 'changing to them anyway'.  In Finale's case I tend to embed things into the score directly as needed, as it's a rather different and more 'piece/passage specific' approach than for Sibelius and Dorico for me.  Finale has a few more 'power tools' when it comes to play back of fine details....but  those power user tools take practice and experimentation to find and master. 

It's also possible to fiddle with some XML files and make whatever instruments you want to become 'the default' for a given instrument in Finale, but so far it's not been much trouble for me to just dial up the one(s) I want with the Score Manager so I have not bothered.

As for changes/improvements to the GPO5 sfz files themselves, yes, I think there is a LOT we users can do and share to improve the library.  Little things like fixing loop points in some instruments....changing the dynamic envelopes, as well as the sample starting positions a bit for attack on some of the strings, adding some key-switches using existing sample content to mimic more articulations, etc.

Some things on my list to try are:

1.  Out of all the string samples in the library, there is bound to be a way to create a nice 'rapid scale' key-switch for fast solo and tutti passages.  I.E.  When the bow is already in full motion and a player simply changes fingerings or grabs another string while the bow is already at full speed, then there should NOT be a down/up bow attacking sound, and less if any vibrato.  At some point I hope to build a key-switch in my personal copy of GPO5 to give us a nicer implementation of rapid scale/arpeggio playing.

2.  I definitely want to work on continuous loop points for the Stradivarius and  Guarneri solo violins (Legacy Solo Violins 2 and 3).  The Gagliano (Legacy Solo Violin 1) has a pretty nice continuous loop, but the other two do not.  The forte variant of the new GOS Solo violin (del Gesù) needs a continuous loop point as well.

3.  Garritan Libraries come with a lot of nice percussion samples, but the way  some of the sfz definitions are done they are not as 'dynamic' as they could/should be.  I've redone some of the drum kits already....but someday I'd like to redo pretty much all of them so we can get better dynamic range, and more easily set kit pieces exactly where we want them in a mix.

4.  Some of the instruments/choir voices could use some range extension.  It won't be perfect, but we users can make some simple tweaks to extend the ranges a bit.

5.  I really want to tweak the interface XML to give us a CC119 dial showing in ARIA for the new Orchestral Strings.  I 'think' I can do this without breaking registration, but I have not tried it yet.

6.  It'd be nice to add an alternate CC for 'channel pressure'.  I see people all the time without after-touch sensitive keyboards looking for ways to control vibrato (for the instruments that allow lfo style vibrato control).

It is difficult to believe that MakeMusic cannot simply put out a patch that repairs this error with playback.

I tried to follow the "step-by-step" instructions above, but actually found that the string instrument names were not as indicated.

After much hunting and pecking I finally got it to work.

I've found that just disabling and re-enabling the Legacy Strings settings in Human playback fixed the problem for me.

I just read through the above after being referred here from a third party site in a discussion about the broken playback of GPO5 strings. I can't believe that a company like MM actually expects its customers to go through the steps outlined here when they could probably assign a developer to the problem and have it fixed for everyone within a day or two. (While they are at it they could assign someone to boost the basic volume of the Garritan percussion samples that has been broken for more than 10 years. How long would that take a developer who knew what he was doing?)

When I worked in software development we would never have tolerated a situation like this. And, if the bosses wouldn't authorize us to spend a day or two to fix a broken part of the application, then they would probably have faced a rebellion on the part of the developers. Does not MM have any pride left?

Hi JERRY!

I saw you revised you GPO string technique file in 2019... what for?

TIA