Ditto.  Is there really no way to extend the range of that synthesized voice so it will sound on higher notes?

One can indeed tweak the the sfz file and extend the range of the highest sample.

I could just give you sfz replacement files to try (and I will if you ask for them), but I'll try to explain how it is done so you'll know how, and can apply it in the future to any other Garritan instruments you might want to extend.

For the GPO 5 Choir Basses...

There are a couple of methods to go about this.  One is to simply stretch the <region> of the highest assigned sample.  In this case your upper most range will literally speed up the sample to make it pitch accurate.  In theory a stretch from A3 - D4 should work out OK, but if you're not happy with the sound of that sample stretching you could borrow samples from the Tenors and copy them over to the bass.

I'm not sure where Garritan and the libraries get installed on a Mac, but On my Windows system the files to edit would be:

"%SYSTEMDRIVE%\Program Files\Garritan\Personal Orchestra 5\Instruments\Choir\Choir Mappings\Bass_Ahh_Map.sfz"

and

"%SYSTEMDRIVE%\Program Files\Garritan\Personal Orchestra 5\Instruments\Choir\Choir Mappings\Bass_Ohh_Map.sfz"

First I'd make a back-up copy of these files.  Personally I like to make a copy to my desk-top, rename the originals by adding the extension .bak (might require administration mode, or sudo on a Mac?), and then move the copies back into the dirctory.  This way we've got a back up that can be restored, and we can edit the working copy with our favorite text editor in administrative mode.  After making edits one can reload the instrument in an ARIA slot and changes go into effect.

When you open one of these files in a text text editor you should see a several lines that start with a <region> tag.  A <region> is what assigns samples to an instrument, and defines the key range and velocity levels that can trigger it.  In this case the <region> in both files with the highest key value is all one needs to edit:

Example for the <region> stretch method (Up to a D4): 

Below we see that key=57 (A3), was the highest key assigned to any region in the "Bass_Ohh_Map.sfz".  (Notice the bold opcodes key, lokey, hikey, and pitch_keycenter)

<region>  lovel=001  hivel=127 key=057  amplitude=100  tune=0  loop_mode=loop_continuous  loop_start=82644  loop_end=358511  sample=BasOh063$EXT

I'm going to edit this region so that last sample assigned covers a range of notes instead of just key 57.

<region>  lovel=001  hivel=127 lokey=057  hikey=062 pitch_keycenter=057 amplitude=100  tune=0  loop_mode=loop_continuous  loop_start=82644  loop_end=358511  sample=BasOh063$EXT

Repeat the procedure for the "Bass_Aah_Map.sfz"....

Example for the "Borrow Samples from the Tenors" method (Extend up to E4):

Another approach  would be to simply open the "Tenor_Ooh_Map.sfz", then copy and paste sample regions for the extended range into the "Bass_Ohh_Map.sfz" and make some simple tweaks.

Copy this region from the "Tenor_Ohh_Map.sfz" into the "Bass_Ohh_Map.sfz":

<region>  lovel=001  hivel=127 lokey=057 hikey=058  pitch_keycenter=057  amplitude=100  tune=0  loop_mode=loop_continuous  loop_start=26895  loop_end=178364  sample=TensO013$EXT

Once copied, you'll need to edit this region in your "Bass_Ohh_Map.sfz" so it only triggers the B3 (MIDI note 58) since we already have a Bb3 bass sample.  So the above <region> becomes:

<region>  lovel=001  hivel=127 key=058  pitch_keycenter=057 amplitude=100  tune=0  loop_mode=loop_continuous  loop_start=26895  loop_end=178364  sample=TensO013$EXT

For the rest just copy and paste these <regions> into the "Bass_Oh_map.sfz".

<region>  lovel=001  hivel=127 key=059  amplitude=100  tune=0  loop_mode=loop_continuous  loop_start=42614  loop_end=201643  sample=TensO009$EXT

<region>  lovel=001  hivel=127 key=060 hikey=61  amplitude=100  tune=0  loop_mode=loop_continuous  loop_start=48498  loop_end=235409  sample=TensO031$EXT

<region>  lovel=001  hivel=127 key=062  amplitude=100  tune=0  loop_mode=loop_continuous  loop_start=73144  loop_end=216006  sample=TensO033$EXT

<region>  lovel=001  hivel=127 key=063  amplitude=100  tune=0  loop_mode=loop_continuous  loop_start=45384  loop_end=243023  sample=TensO047$EXT

<region>  lovel=001  hivel=127 key=064  amplitude=100  tune=0  loop_mode=loop_continuous  loop_start=39025  loop_end=225399  sample=TensO037$EXT

Repeat the procedure for the "Bass_Aah_Map.sfz"....

Potential phasing issues if you borrow samples from the tenors:

If basses and tenors have union parts in the borrowed range, you might get phasing issues where the same identical sample at the same pitch playing twice in a mix, in perfect sync can cancel themselves out (become difficult to hear, or just sound strange).  To avoid this you could also detune the copied samples a slight amount by changing the tune opcode in the region.

Example:

tune=1 (tunes the sample up one cent)

tune=-4 (tunes the sample down 4 cents.

It can also help to be sure you pan Basses and Tenors to different positions.

If that's not enough, you could also add some opcodes to delay the sample a few milliseconds, run samples through some filters to alter some specific frequencies a bit, or use a simple lfo to add a slight amount of vibrato (another topic though...ask later if you find you want/need to learn how).

All of your Garritan libraries are based on the sfz protocol.  There are all kinds of useful fixes and extensions you can make to these libraries on your own.  A great reference for seeing how sfz works can be found here:

http://drealm.info/sfz/plj-sfz.xhtml

Different companies sometimes number octaves in different ways.  Here is a chart showing the one ARIA uses.  ARIA will accept MIDI note numbers, or Note and Octave names when setting up <region> key ranges.

Open a support ticket with MM. Use the Submit a Request tab at the top of this page.

That's tremendously helpful, Brian.  Thanks!  I'll have to give that a try next time I'm not on a crazy deadline.  (So, retirement, probably.)  ;-)

This is a really useful discussion!  I would just like to add my support to the claim that this is a flaw in Garritan.  Why should we have to go about this complicated process of adding notes which should have been there when we bought it in the first place?   

I don't know the relationship between Finale and Garritan, whether it's the same company or how the two brands relate, but they have a common element in their corporate philosophy: that things do not need to work first time, that the buyer can be expected to waste hours fixing things which should have been there in the first place.  This is as much a problem with Finale, in my experience.

Windows 7, Finale 26 (current), GPO5

Thank you for all of the fascinating information, above.

I have only just heard of this, and it does look rather easy.

However, my "Basses Aah.sfz" file does not have the <region> element in the file.
What I have is a lot of "#include" and the code is very short. It looks like it is reading from other files.

Any suggestions?

For curiosity sake, I also opened (a copy in Notepad) "Violin 1 Gagli Solo KS.sfz"

The code has over 1,000 instances of <region> and just over 100 of "lokey=  "

Thank you,
:-)
Vanessa

Not helpful.

I don't see why MakeMusic can't fix the problem in the Finale software, shouldn't be hard to do. Why should we customers have to fiddle with the dials? I for one don't have the technical knowhow to do it myself.

Richard

Vanessa,

The version of ARIA that ships with GPO5 has some new abilities (as compared to the ARIA engine that originally shipped with GPO4).  One of them is the ability to reference other files with sfz tagged content through the use of 'include' statements.

Note that "Basses.sfz" is a key-switched master patch that combines all the ooh and aah variants into a single instrument.

Follow the paths showing in the include statements.  On my system it's one level deepr into the "Choir Mappings" directory.  Hopefully you will find the referenced sfz, and the regions that can be edited to extend the instrument ranges. 

I belive the files you need to tweak are named:
Bass_Ohh_Map.sfz

and

Bass_Aah_Map.sfz

I suspect you might be looking in a different directory from the one I posted above, or perhaps yours installed differently than mine, or maybe there has been an update since I posted things above (I haven't taken it yet if it exists).  Assuming we're looking at the same version, it seems to me like you're looking at the main key-switched variant for the Bass Choir (Basses), as opposed to the individual something_map.sfz files for each layer.

In the past, to do a key-switched combi type of instrument you'd have to put all of the layers in the same sfz file.  It could get rather repetitious if you'd already created a bunch of stand alone layers but simply want to make some new layered, or key-switched instruments based off of existing content.  Now in ARIA, you can more easily mix and match existing layers through the include option if you plan your instruments accordingly.

......

Richard,

I'm sorry my post wasn't helpful for you.  I apologize for wasting your time.

Have you tried filing a support ticket with MM?  In my experience they've always been really good at helping me sort issues I come across, or putting me with people who can.  I could be wrong, but I would imagine MM would either tell you the same things I posted here, or send you a replacement sfz with the required tweaks.  I base this assumption on personal experiences with MM over the years.  In part, this is how I learned to do this in the first place.........

Why don't they just fix it in an 'update'?  I've often wondered the same thing.  It seems easy enough, but at the same time they might not have the legal authority to change the distribution copy.  These are bundled products of a sort, with a variety of technologies sourced from different companies.  This does NOT mean however, that dedicated and helpful MM technicians will not happily bend over backwards to help you get your work done.  I can't speak for everyone, but I've found their support to be pretty darn good over the years in cases where I had to file a ticket.

I am NOT affiliated with MakeMusic beyond being a costumer, and occasional beta program participant when my time permits. I simply offered point blank, step by step instructions on how to extend the range of an sfz instrument.  SFZ instruments are a long standing industry standard, so it's not really anything new or incredibly complicated.  People often make fun of my 'poor education' and where my degrees came from....ironically, this is one of the first things we learned to do in our scoring and studio labs.  Not because our professor asked for it, but because we saw the need, and our professor encouraged us to 'do what we need to do to find our sound within the ethical and legal boundaries of our kit'.  That was then, and is now still a major selling point of the open sfz format.

I did offer to post a replacement sfz if someone were to 'ask' for it in lieu of taking a look at things on their own.  So far people seem to prefer making the tweaks themselves so they can learn a bit more about how the software works, and how to personalize the sounds to their own needs.

I'll be among the first to agree that GPO has a few glitches and/or oversights (so do all the other libraries and scoring packages, and I run several...Finale, Sibelius, Dorico, MuseScore, Lily Pond, Cubase, etc.).  These Garritan libraries have also been around a long time, and don't get much love or continuous development. 

At the same time, this library is a mere fraction of the price of anything out there on the market that comes even close to providing the quantity and quality of instrument samples.  I own quite a few libraries personally, and have access to even more in various work environments and studios.  Trust me...NONE OF THEM are a utopia to work with.  ALL OF THEM have ways of turning into a major 'time sink' when it comes to making a decent and realistic virtual 'mock up' of a score.  Organizing and working with REAL MUSICIANS comes with a major set of head-aches and expenses as well.  This is just a fact of life.

It's OK though.  I can't repad a clarinet for the life of me and get it right.  I can't knock the dents out of a trombone slide either.  I'm not very good at tuning pianos either, and while I used to enjoy it, I'd rather eat sand than tune up a marching bass drum line.  I've tried both (padding woodwinds, and fixing scrubby trombone slides) many times and just can't master it to my satisfaction....it's essential to my programs though...so I find someone who can do these things and arrange a trade of some sort.  Oddly enough, if I complained to one of the instrument makers that it's not fair for me to have to repad clarinets to keep them working, I'd get laughed out of the business.

A simple raw sample library alone with this much content and the 'rights to use it', with NO synth parameters included at all can easily cost up to $2,000 US.  There are quite a few more modern libraries out there with fancy user interfaces instead of the sfz text file driven system.  Give them a try...just be aware that you'll need a massive hard drive, a fast CPU, you're likely to have dongles hanging out of every port on the system, and they will be rather expensive.

I find 'issues' all the time deep in Garritan instruments that most people probably never find, because they don't need the sound anyway.  I find even more that is acceptable, but not exactly what "I want or need" for a given musical passage, so I take a minute to fix or personalize it for my composition.  Anyone can learn to do this...and yes, the FIRST TIME always takes a little time and effort, but once you know how, well, it takes longer to make a pot of coffee and have a smoke.....so there's that.

Dear Vanessa,

I apologize for my curt dismissive previous comment. You didn't waste my time, it just didn't help me.

I'm just angry that MakeMusic can't make what should be an easy fix to GPO, and it makes me impatient.

Richard

Hi Brian,

Sorry for my delayed response. This is the kind of thing I do when I have the "fun time" to explore Finale's newer features.
Yes... "The version of ARIA that ships with GPO5 has some new abilities (as compared to the ARIA engine that originally shipped with GPO4). One of them is the ability to reference other files with sfz tagged content through the use of 'include' statements."

I did find the source file. You confirmed my suspicions, but it is better to have confirmation FIRST, before tinkering

:-)
Vanessa

Hi Richard,

Thank you for your kind words. Be assured, I do understand your frustration(s).

I began using Finale somewhere in the early 1990s. I had a blazing hot Mac IIsi with 8 MB of RAM and an 80 MB (not TB) hard drive  :-)
The icon on the files was a little monk (cute little guy), and I still have the original manuals--they are works of art in and of themselves.

It was an extremely difficult program to learn because of the arcane terminology and nomenclature the programmers/authors used.

I went through all three (3) manuals once, and then started over again. The second time was somewhat easier because by then I had acclimated to the style and definitions used.

It was, nevertheless, quite tedious.

No World Wide Web and forums and immediate help, although the telephone help was pretty thorough.

After my first print out of parts for an orchestral work, I knew it all was worth it.
Prior to that, every note, jot, and tittle in both the score and the multitude of parts was written by my own hand.
Thank goodness we had quality photocopy shops by then, but I also painfully remember hand copying each section parts -- Violin I, etc.

Playback now is so vastly improved with its quality samplings: I can endure easier and am not as frustrated when I have to find a work-around.

Life is good.

:-)
Vanessa

"The samples in the Garritan libraries are precisely engineered to work within a specific range (dictated primarily by what was perceived to be a normal range for the instrument)."

If anyone thinks an A below Middle C is the upper limit of a Bass's 'normal range' (to say nothing of the Tenors lacking a Top A.....!), then clearly they've never been near a choir.

Thanks to Brian for the detailed instructions. I've amended both the Basses and Tenors to more 'normal' ranges.