VDL General Midi Set - BUG – Finale/Garritan Help Center

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Raymond Biernat Posted July 11, 2017 23:37

Windows 10, Cakewalk Sonar X3, Garritan Concert & Marching Band Band with updated ARIA player. While playing back midi sequence files in Sonar, I observed that bass drum and snare drum notes only sound every other one. In the piano-roll view, clicking the mouse on the keyboard on the left side of the screen will sound the note indicated on the keyboard midi drum map. However, the bass drum and snare drum notes will sound only if the key is clicked TWICE. Most of the other sound only require a single click to make them sound. A similar behavior is seen in the ARIA player where there is a keyboard near the bottom of the screen. Clicking the notes on the keyboard will sound the note. However the bass drum and snare drum notes will sound only if they are clicked TWICE. Most of the other notes only require a single click. The end result is that only half the bass drum and snare drum notes are sounding when the sequence plays back. I suspect there is some sort of BUG in the VDL General Midi sample set.

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Date Votes

Brian Roland Edited July 12, 2017 19:17

Greetings...

I had problems with that drum kit as well. It can be fixed (kind of) with some sfz tweaking, but in my opinion there are better free kits out there that will load into ARIA.

If you'd like to try to fix it, here is a primer on how sfz works:

http://drealm.info/sfz/plj-sfz.xhtml

It's been a while since I've looked at it (never bothered to fix it since I have plenty of other kits at hand), but I think the problem is that the kit does a round robin thing, and something is aloof with the velocity mapping between the round robin sequences.

Quite a few Sonar instruments are built around sfz, so it won't hurt to learn a little about it. It also might be interesting to know that some of the stuff that comes with various Sonar instruments can also be loaded into ARIA.

Here is one example of a free kit you might try: http://www.drealm.info/sfz/GregJazz/

If you want an alternative kit to load 'in place' of the one included in COMB2, then rename the origional "VDL Gneral MIDI Set.sfz" file in your installation to "VDL Gneral MIDI Set.sfz.bak", and place the new kit in the same directory with the "VDL Gneral MIDI Set.sfz" name. You'll need to check the sample paths in the new kit, and stash your samples so they will be found (or edit the paths in the sfz file accordingly).

Brian Roland Posted July 12, 2017 10:36

P.S.

I'll take a look at the set and see if I can figure out what is wrong.....if I'm able to fix it I'll offer my patch.

Brian Roland Posted July 12, 2017 17:49

Here is my attempt to fix the "VDL General MIDI Set" in COMB2.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-9pjh4Xl8gsTUx0V2tBdFZoc1k

Raymond Biernat Posted July 12, 2017 20:02

To Brian Roland: I installed the patch which you provided. It works! I tested it out using a sequence of bass drum and snare drum notes in Sonar Step Sequencer. Not a single instance of skipping every other note as experienced previously. I did notice however that every other bass drum note was slightly different in velocity, There are two different bass drum samples , note # 35 and #36. The #35 seemed more consistent note to note. The problem with the VDL General Midi Set seems to be solved. I discovered however that the drum sounds in the XLN Audio Addictive Drums package seem better to my ears than the VDL General Midi. The downside is that not all percussion sounds are available in the XLN set. Its is more slanted toward jazz instrumentation. Anyway, thanks for helping solve my problem.

Brian Roland Edited July 12, 2017 20:44

Raymod,

The alternating sound is by design in this case. They round robin between two samples for each hit. I suppose the intent was to emulate alternating sticking?

If you'd like to tweak the drum set have a look at the sfz file.

There are two 'round robin' <groups>.

One is near the top of the sfz file under the commentary "Hits", and you'll look for the regions defining key=36.

//Hits

<region> lovel=1 hivel=59 key=36 pan=6.5 tune=0 loop_mode=no_loop sample=DSSO_BD_06_0002102C.audio
<region> lovel=60 hivel=75 key=36 pan=6.5 tune=0 loop_mode=no_loop sample=DSSO_BD_06_0002102C.audio
<region> lovel=76 hivel=127 key=36 pan=6.5 tune=0 loop_mode=no_loop sample=DSSO_BD_10_0002102C.audio

The other region is near the bottom of the sfz file under commentary Hits 2, you'll look for the regions defining key=36.

//Hits 2

<region> lovel=1 hivel=59 key=36 pan=6.5 tune=0 loop_mode=no_loop sample=DSSO_BD_03_0002102C.audio
<region> lovel=60 hivel=75 key=36 pan=6.5 tune=0 loop_mode=no_loop sample=DSSO_BD_03_0002102C.audio
<region> lovel=76 hivel=127 key=36 pan=6.5 tune=0 loop_mode=no_loop sample=DSSO_BD_07_0002102C.audio

As you can see this particular key maps 3 samples over various velocities, and the two regions alternate.

So, the first time you strike a key, the first region plays (Hits). The second time the other region is triggered (Hits 2). Third time, it goes back to Hit 1, etc....

If you want to adjust the amplitude of one of the samples you can add the opcode "amplitude=[linear percentage]" to the region.

example (make this region twice as loud):

<region> lovel=60 hivel=75 key=36 amplitude=200 pan=6.5 tune=0 loop_mode=no_loop sample=DSSO_BD_03_0002102C.audio

.........

Really, it probably would not hurt to totally redesign this drum kit so the samples are distributed in a different way, as well as some filter action so velocity has a bit more effect, and perhaps even make it so one could individually remix each set of kit pieces via CC, but for now it is what it is. I'll mull it over a bit and if I can make a dramatically better kit using these same samples I'll toss it up here. Meanwhile, I do encourage you to have a look and fiddle with it a bit yourself.

Brian Roland Posted July 12, 2017 20:41

Just guessing without loading it up and trying...

Perhaps something like this would get you a smoother kick drum on key 36:

The point being, you can add the amplitude opcode and fiddle with it until you get a better balance between the two alternating regions.

//Hits

<region> lovel=1 hivel=59 key=36 amplitude=80 pan=6.5 tune=0 loop_mode=no_loop sample=DSSO_BD_06_0002102C.audio
<region> lovel=60 hivel=75 key=36 amplitude=100 pan=6.5 tune=0 loop_mode=no_loop sample=DSSO_BD_06_0002102C.audio
<region> lovel=76 hivel=127 key=36 amplitude=100 pan=6.5 tune=0 loop_mode=no_loop sample=DSSO_BD_10_0002102C.audio

//Hits 2

<region> lovel=1 hivel=59 key=36 amplitude=100 pan=6.5 tune=0 loop_mode=no_loop sample=DSSO_BD_03_0002102C.audio
<region> lovel=60 hivel=75 key=36 amplitude=100 pan=6.5 tune=0 loop_mode=no_loop sample=DSSO_BD_03_0002102C.audio
<region> lovel=76 hivel=127 key=36 amplitude=120 pan=6.5 tune=0 loop_mode=no_loop sample=DSSO_BD_07_0002102C.audio

Brian Roland Edited July 12, 2017 22:10

OK,

Here is a variant that reworks the kick drums quite a bit.

1. We remove them from the round robin regions and create a new <group> just for the kick-drums.

2. We distribute all 8 kick drum samples over a single key (36).

3. We duplicate this region, change the key (35), re-pan a bit, and tune it down about 15 cents.

So you've got the same kick drum on keys 35 and 36, but tuned a little differently. There are 8 velocity zones on each key.

You can grab this fix here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-9pjh4Xl8gsWF9zdVpHODBMUnc

It might not be a bad idea for us to try this with all of the drums...hmmm.

I'm thinking we could also split off toms and snares to their own <group>s and give them a CC where you could control the volume for each group (kick, snare, toms, overhead, etc.) independently. These added CCs would not show up in the ARIA control panel, but they'd work.

Raymond Biernat Posted July 13, 2017 01:25

Hi Brian

I installed the ver 01 patch. It does the trick. The bass drum notes are even. You really know your way around those SFZ files. Thanks for the additional help. I'm a musician who knows enough about computer programming to get into trouble, so I generally defer to someone like you who knows what he's doing. Thanks for the help.

Brian Roland Posted July 13, 2017 07:46

Raymond,

I'm finding issues with the high-hats as well....

This kit needs a total overhaul from top to bottom.

I'm not sure when I'll get a chance to do a new one, but I'll post it here if and when I do.

Brian Roland Edited July 16, 2017 13:45

Here is a version that fixes the Hi-Hat issue.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-9pjh4Xl8gsTHVDa1BvdTlTUEk

I've also included an option to extend the kit to a full GM2 compliment, so you'd get some new instruments on the kit.

Hi Q

Slap

Scratches

Metronome Clicks and Bell

Stick Click

Cuica (Actually this is GM1, but the VDL kit didn't have it).

Castanets

Sleighbells

BellTree

Surdo Drum

Raymond Biernat Posted July 16, 2017 16:15

Hi Brian,

I downloaded the ver 2 Hi Hat Fix. I will load it when I get time and see what its about. Sfx programming is piqueing my curiosity so I will use your patches as a tutorial to get a better understanding of SFX. Thanks.

Brian Roland Edited July 16, 2017 22:29

No problem....

I'm still not totally happy with the VDL kit. It's not dynamic enough for my taste, and there are enough decent samples included in COMB2 to get a much more expressive kit. Hopefully it all works now though, and that is an improvement.

Ideally, we'd take this kit apart and take advantage of more opcodes to give us better dynamics and variances. Once you go outside the kick drums, snares, main toms, and overhead cymbals, there is currently little to no dynamic control over the other kit pieces. We could do better, and perhaps I will when I get more time to play with it.

As for learning more about SFZ, since you are on Sonic as your DAW format I do highly recommend it. Dimension, Rapture, Beatscape, etc. All of these instruments are based in some way on SFZ. If you'd like to learn more about editing and/or designing sounds for these instruments (and ARIA as well), here's a good Forum to start with: http://plogue.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=14

I got this book some time ago and it has been really helpful (by now there might be better and more up to date books for Sonic Users...which include all the sfz opcodes....I'd ask around on the Sonic forums just in case): https://www.amazon.com/Cakewalk-Synthesizers-Presets-Power-User/dp/1435455649/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

You can also find most of the opcodes listed here:

http://drealm.info/sfz/plj-sfz.xhtml

Also, studying and/or using existing Dimension, Rapture, and Garritan instruments as a reference point is also quite helpful.

Raymond Biernat Posted July 16, 2017 22:50

You made reference to "Sonic" several times. Did you mean "Sonar"? My DAW is Sonar X3.

Brian Roland Posted July 17, 2017 05:45

Oops, yes, Sonar.

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