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I'm doing some Oberkrainer arrangements, and need to use "serpent" segnos, often used as nested repeats. Anyone have any tips on accomplishing this with minimal pain? (i.e. not building it from scratch in the shape editor) Correct playback would be a bonus, but I am not optimistic and can live without it.

 

...and before anyone lectures me on style, I know nested repeats are frowned upon, but they are both useful and idiomatic in this context. See 416751_detail-04.jpg (571×800) (stretta-music.com) for example.

 

If the SMuFL support in Finale 27 can handle this and will be out by July, I can put it off that long. Not surprisingly, peak Oberkrainer demand is October, so I need to be done a couple of months in advance of that. In SMuFL, the characters I need are U+E04A segnoSerpent1 and/or U+E04B segnoSerpent2 .

 

Thanks!

 

System:
Finale 25.5.0.290 on Win 10. (I evaluated 26, but found none of the fixes I need, so I am waiting for 27.)
Hardware: 8 core Ryzen 7 with 32GB DDR4, 2TB SSD and 12 TB NAS, RX 5700 XT GPU
primary audio out is Focusrite ASIO to Scarlett 18i20, with a nektar Impact LX25+ for input.

 

 

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I have always used the serpent character from the Maestro font:

font slot #159 (= U+00FC).

 

No need to build the symbol “from scratch” in the Shape Designer.

 

It works for me.

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Ah, there it is - thanks. I need to get a better font glyph viewer. I suppose I could also have used Bravura, now that I think about it.

 

My best attempt at getting the proper layout is to create a one beat measure (displayed with default time signature) with only a hidden rest, then assign an expression using the serpent character and the following settings:

Then I use an invisible barline for the preceding measure. That looks decent and avoids most of the manual spacing  work, but of course it makes a mess of playback.

 

I can live with that, but suggestions for a better workflow are still welcome.

 

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… suggestions for a better workflow are still welcome …

 

1) Finale’s dialog box Symbol Selection can be used as a “font glyph viewer”.

To view the glyphs at a bigger size, increase the font size; the Symbol Selection displays the glyphs at the chosen font size.

 

2) Why not use the Repeat Tool - instead of the Expression Tool.

With the Repeat Tool you can get correct repeat playback.

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PopChar is exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for, may give that a shot.

The Finale Symbol Selection dialog and often isn't available when I'm off in another dialog. Also, it is even less UX-friendly than what is built into Windows (Character Map) - you can't change font inside it.

Cloning the coda mark in the repeat tool and changing the symbol leaves me stuck with a lot of manual adjustments and positioning, which is just too time-consuming. Also, I have encountered a number of issues with the repeat tool, so it frequently doesn't result in the playback I would like either. If I really need to save audio output from something I'm working on in Fnale, I generally export it to a DAW anyway, so I can fix it up there.

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Now that we’ve found it, can anyone explain to me what it means, and how (if) it should be used?

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… Now that we’ve found it, can anyone explain to me what it means, and how (if) it should be used? …

 

Did you look at the graphic Thomas Cox linked to in the first post?

 

The “Serpent Segno” means the same as the “ordinary Segno”, and it is used in the same way as the “ordinary Segno”.

The difference is a layout difference:

- the “ordinary Segno” is positioned above the staff,

- the “Serpent Segno” is positioned inside the staff, on a double barline.

 

You could say that the “Serpent Segno” is more space efficient - since it does not require a lot of space above the staff.

 

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Mike, it is for musicians who speak Parseltongue.

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Peter said:

The “Serpent Segno” means the same as the “ordinary Segno”, and it is used in the same way as the “ordinary Segno”.

 

Perfect. Just what I needed to know. Why I need to know is another question…

 

Adrian, I only went to that class once, and it was raining and the teacher didn’t show up.

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Peter is correct on the proper usage. As mentioned, I also see it used as the outer set of symbols for nested repeats, probably in utter defiance of "Behind Bars".

It seems to be mostly a German/East European thing. In practice, the group finds it a more reliable eye-catcher than a standard segno, especially when there are multiple sets of them on a page - so I just nodded and said I would figure it out.

There was even one old fin de siècle German march that had a third nested repeat symbol, though I think the copyist made it up on the spot. It annoyed the band enough that it got banished from the book.

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