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I ask that if you're reading this to read through and to please consider my request seriously and to let the good folks at Finale know how much you'd like to see Finale iOS. If you have any reservations, let me prove to you why it would help advance and not slow the progress Finale (the desktop version).
And I can also show you how and why a Finale iOS version could have a major impact on your workflow.

I own an iPad Pro with the Apple Pencil. I use Notion iOS for my daily off site notation sketching and full charting and part printing to completion app. It works! And if I need to add something to a chart that the iOS version can't do (which there isn't much of), I can save to iCloud, Dropbox, save as MIDI file, XML and PDF. Then transfer it to Notion, Finale or my DAW for further editing.

But I would like to see Finale iOS and it's my desktop notation app.

There are two critical things to understand about iOS.

1) The A9X chip used in the iPad Pro's is fast. It's approaching decent i5 speeds and can easily handle playback of a full orchestra or if you're running a DAW and need to do sound design or you're composing in an iOS DAW, the iPad Pro runs several powerful DAWs (I'm currently using Cubasis which is the iOS version of Cubase - although I'm a Digital Permorner user on my multi-MacPro desktop rig), an iPad Pro can handle most needs with ease.

Note entry can be accomplished just like the desktop version (including using an attacked MIDI controller either via a USB cable or through Bluetooth. Bluetooth is great because it frees up the Lightning port to be used as a digital audio out, which can not only be connected to your desktop rig via a USB port, but an external clock can control playback. In other words it's about the same as having a MacBook connected to your main rig but it does things a MacBook can't. For one, the synths now available for iOS are extremely powerful.

2) The Apple Pencil. I can write notation freely with the pencil on a blank Notion iOS document and it takes my handwriting and turns it into vector graphics. The one problem with Notion iOS is that it only allows you to write on the bottom 25 percent of the screen. That doesn't quite cut it. But that's not an iOS or iPad issue. If you haven't already looked at the app StaffPad for Window's Surface tablets, your jaw will drop with envy when you do (look it up). StaffPad is basically a blank template for any ensemble you want. You write on the screen with a stylus just like you would with pencil and paper and StaffPad will convert your handwriting into vector graphics AND it makes use of the entire screen. It's taken the Windows notation world by storm. The makers of StaffPad have been inundated by iPad users asking for an iOS version but they stubbornly refuse to port to iOS stating the the iPad is not powerful enough (THIS IS BLATANTLY FALSE) as the A9x and the forthcoming A10x are fastly approaching i5 and even i7 capabilities. I have the Geekbench scores to prove it.

They also say that iOS is too locked down. Again, this is pure nonsense. Unfortunately the programmer for StaffPad is a Windows developer only and refuses to consider porting anything to Apple. I have a history with Apple and I can tell you that he is wrong. The iPad Pro is now capable of handling a desktop type app. Notion iOS basically does everything the desktop version does.

Notion iOS does 90 percent of what I need it to do. But again, the iOS community is insulted that there aren't very many big name notation apps for iOS. However there are many apps trying. There's Notion, Muse Score, Score Creator, Guitar Pro, NotateMe Now (all Pencil usage), Symphony Pro, iReal Pro, TouchNotation, Avid Scorch, and many others. BUT what's missing are the BIG TWO - Finale and Sibelius.

Admittedly Finale as is might be a tough port because it's so deep and has been built around the mouse and desktop metaphor for a long time. But with the latest version, Finale 25, a companion Finale iOS doesn't seem as far fetched as it might have been a couple of years ago.

I'm a film composer, conductor, music theory and composition teacher, and I have a background in technology. I worked at Apple for some years. And I can honestly tell you that the time is right for Finale iOS. iOS and iPad Pros are now powerful enough to hang with the desktop version ( in most respects), and in some ways the workflow is faster (depending on the task).

I have fallen in love with sketching and charting on the iPad Pro and I believe if Finale made an iOS version, it would take off like wildfire. StaffPad has done amazingly well for Surface sales and for composers and arrangers in rehearsals that are doing edits, cranking out cues (which get handed off to the destop orchestrator for clean up and part printing, but in Notion iOS can be done on the iPad itself!). StaffPad has revolutionized the way film scores and composers on location work. The iPad Pro is waiting for that app. Notion iOS is close, but because they got bought out by Presonus, integration with Studio One had become a priority. Hence, right now is the perfect time for Finale to make its move to iOS.

There are many, like me, that are heavily invested in iOS and the large iPad Pro specifically and refuse to buy into a Windows system. IMO, the Surface Pro's are clunky compared to the iPad Pro.

I herby request that Finale and MakeMusic port a version of Finale to iOS that is a combination of what Notion iOS and StaffPad have accomplished. I'm willing to use my YouTube channel to make videos showing the power of Notion iOS on the iPad Pro to demonstrate what a Finale iOS could do for the composer on the go.

I'm also asking for the voices of the Finale community to speak up and ask for Finale iOS. I'm guessing some of you already get it and already want it. But for those of you that are skeptical, please voice your concerns to me and let me show you the power, freedom and the newly found freshness of being able to notate at a high level on a mobile device. You will be surprised. Many times I have felt the creative desire in between rehearsals and then charted out my ideas during breaks or between rehearsals, and that has revolutionized my workflow, (and my output!).

Thank you for reading this and I look forward to your feedback.

Steve Steele (Finale users since 1995).

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HI all:

Circling back to this thread. Thank you all for your input and suggestions. Finale on the iOS is not something on our roadmap at this time. There are some wonderful apps already there, Notion being one of them that I recommend.

Cheers,
Michael Johnson
VP, Professional Notation
MakeMusic

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Well said, Steven. You make great points.

Me? I'd give all my right eyelashes (sorry, but I'm keeping the eye) to have a fully functioning version of Finale for iOS to use with my iPad Pro.

Why doesn't MakeMusic create one? I can think of three possible reasons.

1. ROI isn't large enough. Would you drive thirty miles further than usual to save one euro on a bag of apples?

2. The Finale devs are purists. They don't want to ship a subset of the full desktop version's feature set.

3. It's hard. MM would rather not release a version at all than give us an inferior one.

These aren't criticisms, btw. It's easy to grumble because a company doesn't give me what I want; but if I were responsible for ensuring the financial well being of a company that produces a product people all over the world rely on for their livelihood, not to mention all of MM's employees, then I'd have to give serious consideration to issues like the three above.

Finally, I doubt that MM will ever share their thinking on this. I don't see how doing that does anything but invite more complaining from folks like me.

Having said all of that, I revert to my default whiny mode to say, "But I want it! Please, pretty please with multiple cherries on top, gimme Finale iOS!"

^_^

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Hi Gregg. You make the points I would certainly expect, especially #2. You're very correct about that. And Finale's code must be ginormous after all the years and dialog boxes. :) MOTU is the same way. I've been a DP user since v1.7. I've been howling about the Quickscibe editor for many years. All I hear are crickets. Radio silence. Presonus bought Notion and is integrating it into Studio One. I'm not happy about that because I liked it as an independent alternative, and because it exists on the iPad. Doesn't have near the feature set or years of code but I can knock out an initial sketch in no time. Jazz lead sheets only take a few minutes.

 

People are going to start buying iPads for the very things we use them for. And right now there is a gap. A gap that maybe only a big name can fill. That gap is the "StaffPad for iOS" gap.

 

MM seems to be in a generous mood. Maybe that's past. When Mark Adler asked what we'd like to see in Finale, I thought that was nice. But was it real? I was one of maybe three people who mentioned ReWire. Mark actually replied to me and asked of my request which one was most important. Seeing that others had many bases already covered I said ReWire. It would be nice to have Finale as DP's score editor. And boy was I shocked when I saw ReWire as a new feature! I didn't even think MM knew what ReWire was and why it would matter.

 

Turns out though they only added it as a bundle and not a device (can only do one stereo output instead of 32 stereo outputs). Ok, not perfect but it works and it's solid. I asked them about have only a stereo output and they said they weren't finished adding ReWire features. Oh, really? All this openness and honesty.

 

But you're still right though. Companies don't budge. But the Stars have lined up for the first company to do notation correctly on the iPad Pro. And they can charge $40-$60 plus sample libraries. Finale has some legacy code removed. They're listening to customers at this critical time for notation app makers. And frankly, Finale iOS would make MM look cool. Finale iOS with a superb handwriting recognition engine would not only make Finale iOS one of THE killer apps on iOS it would port to Windows 10. So the return on investment could happen from several sources over a period of time (as Apple, MS and the workflow of certain segments of the notation community go towards mobility).

 

MM already has Note Pad and Songwriter, and even if those apps haven't received the 64-bit touch at least the Finale code is broken into smaller chunks. So would it really be that hard? Notion did it and did a damn good job with a lot less than MM has (unless Prosonus was in on that deal-I'm not sure about that).

 

So yes, Finale, the music layout app culture, the odd idea of dumbing down the monolithic, years in the making giant notation app for an iPad? No way.

 

But someone will do it and do it right. And that company will profit from it. I know I preaching to the choir here but so many of us are headed in the iPad Pro direction. Maybe it's a bit slow at first but it's taking off and surely MM sees where all of this is going. Maybe the purests will see that struggling with one big desktop app is not as "power user" as haveing a mobile and a desktop that are both powerful. Maybe that will seem purist someday.

 

We can only hope my friend.

Steve

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Thanks for your extensive reply, Steve.

MOTU, huh? Remember the day it debuted. I immediately bought it and replaced my original Macintosh with the just-released Fat Mac (it had an eighth of a megabyte of RAM! Holy cow!).

I know that my comment sounded defeatist, and I apologize for that. I agree with a great deal of what you say, but I'm increasingly more of an Eeyore than a Tigger when it comes to software development. Mark Adler seems like a nice guy. The same with most everyone at MakeMusic I've dealt with. But risk-taking is, well, risky, right?

Tell you what. Should I win the lottery, I'll use some of the proceeds to purchase MakeMusic and . . . .

All best,

Gregg

P.S. I'd also kill for StaffPad on my iPad Pro.

P.P.S. For a marvelous example of a rather complex desktop app beautifully ported to iOS, take a look at Scrivener (http://www.literatureandlatte.com). Serious app for authors, screenwriters, etc. The company is pretty much a one- or two-person shop. The dev promised to bring Scrivener to iOS years ago and finally did just a few months ago. It's rather hard to believe that so much of what the desktop version is famous for is beautifully done for the iPad Pro. But I guess that's not the way MM sees the world (said Eeyore).

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Hi All,

 

I know that Finale for iOS and other touch screen and mobile devices has been called for by customers for awhile now. While I'm afraid that I am not here to say "It's on its way!", I am here to say that this type of feedback is crucial to the discussions here at MakeMusic concerning products and features.

 

The bad news first - At this time, I do not have a time frame for when such a product would be created or updates on anything in the works.

 

Here is what I can do. I would be happy to record this feedback to be added to the scope and information pool on this topic, but please keep commenting and critiquing and bouncing opinions off of this idea. We want to hear what you have to say, what would work for this type of product, and what you would hope to see in terms of functionality in the future. And, of course, please invite others to the conversation and to vote on the topic. 

 

Thank you for posting; hoping to hear more from you guys. Cheers!

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Steve, thanks so much for posting this! I have been wishing for this for several years and now that I have the iPad Pro I want it all the more. I travel internationally quite a bit and generally just take my iPad with me and leave the MacBook Pro home. I have actually seriously considered selling my laptop and going solely to iPad but the number one reason I can't is....no Finale!! I've tried the other iOS notation apps and while there are some worthy attempts out there, once you've used Finale it's hard to use something lesser. I have a number of musician friends who feel the same way. Please, pretty please MM, will you make an iOS version of Finale????

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Hi Lawson Dutton - Thanks for keeping an eye on this post!

 

Lawson, to jump right to the point, my opinion is if you try out Notion iOS and StaffPad on a SurfacePro and then imagine a notation app that does what both of those do, but IS Finale (cherry picking it's unlimited feature set), that should be Finale iOS! 

 

What's important is WHAT needs to be included Finale iOS and what can be left out. It doesn't have everything feature of Finale. not by a long shot. Just the things a composer and arranger would need to get things going. As a quick list (I'll add more later)..

 

1) Too have access to the same templates as Finale has and the samples for each, and to be able to edit them (removing and adding instruments, in other words the entire set up process). Notion has this.

 

2) To be able to enter notes via the on screen keyboard, guitar/bass fretboard and drum pads. Or to be able to connect a MIDI keyboard (USB or Bluetooth and enter note). To be able to write on the screen in FULL SCREEN MODE (Notion only allows me to see the bottom 1/4 of the screen for entering with my pencil) StaffPad allows the user the entire screen with the stylus as if it's a pice of staff paper. But it's only available for Windows and Surface Pros. Sad. They say that iOS is too locked and that the iPad is too slow. Well, they said this things BEFORE the iPad Pro and Pencil came out and believe me the A9X and above CPUs are plenty fast for notation and handwriting recognition. Plenty fast. Handwriting works fine (just Notion's space limit makes it somewhat undesirable). And iOS's file system has opened up enough with access to some folder structure and iCloud. So those needs are met.

 

Many of the deep layout features need not be in Finale iOS at first if ever. Finale iOS could be a tool for both sketching and layout but I think sketching would be its strength, although layout could be interesting.

 

Now that Presonus owns Notion, I don't know what their intentions for Notion iOS are. There are quite a few things I can't do with Notion so it can't last as my mobile notation app.

 

And like Kenneth Wheeler said, I no longer carry around a MacBook Pro as the large iPad Pro really does meet my laptop needs but in many ways it's better. I have the fold out keyboard if I want, but I prefer it as a tablet for notation. There is also a version of Cubase called Cubasis which is very nice that runs well on the iPad Pro (although I prefer Digital Performer, I'll use Cubasis because it's there and it works). 

 

I'm glad MakeMusic is at least listening. That's more than I thought would happen. If one of the big two (Finale or Sibelius) move to the iOS platform I believe it will be the future for many on the go composers, arrangers and any who prefers or needs to compose via notation (and want to use iOS instead of Windows on a less convenient Surface Pro, which probably need the higher end and more expensive i7 versions I've been told - this could be wrong).

 

I'll certainly be here to add much more in the way of ideas as I think of them, or to answer questions.

 

Thanks again for your reply!

Steve Steele

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Thanks for your response, Lawson. You asked for comments re: what an iOS version of Finale would or could be. Here are my thoughts.

First, I love my iPad Pro. It’s now my only personal computing device. I use a nice 27-inch iMac at work as an engraver for a small publisher, but I don't have a desktop Mac nor a laptop.

But a tablet isn’t either of those, and iOS isn’t macOS.

And Finale isn’t an iOS app. I can’t see how such a complex program that does so many things could possibly be squeezed into the strict confines of iOS.

What makes sense to me is to create a version of Finale that gives us editing tools only. No MIDI input via external devices or Bluetooth, which would be a bag of hurt, to quote Steve Jobs. At least in v. 1.0. I suspect that, while this would satisfy me, it would infuriate a gigantic number of other users.

And that difference defines the problem, as I see it. Everyone who uses Finale for different purposes will tell you—perhaps already has told you—that their particular needs are the ones that need to be prioritized in a Finale iOS app.

While this seems an intractable problem, I think there is a solution, and one that will make no one completely happy but all of us glad that there is a 1.0 to get us started.

If I were on the dev team, the two questions I'd ask is this: What feature set is the core of Finale? What is the feature set that would benefit the greatest number of users.

There is another set of questions, of course, that the financial team has to ask and answer. What percentage of the user base even have iOS devices? What subset of that group have iPad Pros? Can Finale work on the 9.7-inch Pro or just the 12.9-inch? What's the ROI, given potential buyers set against time, money, and people resources?

This seems insurmountable to me, but impossible things have certainly been done before. In my way of looking at it, it comes down to where MakeMusic wants to take the company.

Take note that Apple has stated that iOS is the future. Every new whole-number release extends and expands its capability.

But what this means for MakeMusic, none of us can say.

What I can say is that, if it proves feasible, if the ROI works out, then Finale for iOS could potentially be as important to the company as the 64-bit rework is. My opinion only.

As I said above, It seems to me that Finale iOS 1.0 should give us the desktop version editing tools only. I think that will cover the broadest swath of the user base, and I see it as the easiest subset of desktop Finale to port to a mobile OS.

Good luck with your thinking on this, Lawson. And above all else, thank you so much for listening and dialoging with us.

Oh yes. At the risk of seeming to suck up (I'm not), I'd be happy to dialog further with you, the dev team, and of course, updating this thread as you might find it helpful.

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Gregg - Have you tried Notion iOS? Not to take any business away from MM. I'm just curious if you've tried it and if you think Finale iOS should be similar or different, and in what ways. So far, of all the iOS notation apps it feels the most natural to me.

Scrivener. I've had the OS X version for many years and really love it. I didn't know they did an iOS release. I'll check it out tonight. Thanks for the heads up!

Steve

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Hi, Steve.

 

I have, indeed, tried Notion for iOS. It’s a fine product, but it doesn’t meet my primary need for an iPad Pro app, which is the ability to edit Finale files while on the go.

As a composer, I’d welcome some way of inputting notation directly on the staff. But as I said in my previous comment, I think a 1.0 app with just editing tools would be the easiest to do, most cost-effective for MM, and the most likely to reach the broadest swath of the current user base. A good start is better than no start, right?

 

Yes, Scrivener for iOS is most wondrous. I’m amazed at all that it does and how it does it. I also write fiction, so Scriv has been an absolute godsend for me.

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I completely agree with the request for Finale for iOS - especially on the iPad Pro.  I have purchased StaffPad and have a Surface Pro 4 for a completely different line of work - I am a dentist and some of the intraoral camera gear for documenting oral conditions work only in the Windows environment which pushed me to purchase a Surface Pro.  But I am also an organist and wanted something that I could sit at the console and write out music for service use while I'm at that environment practicing.  The Surface Pro 4 is an inferior device to the iPad Pro even with the iPad's "locked down" nature.  The constant updating of Windows 10 is only one of many annoying aspects of it.  There is the nonsense of tiles scattered all over the home screen, the stylus that comes with a Surface Pro is inferior to the Apple Pencil, the Windows 10 operating system is, in my opinion, clunkier than iOS.  I've used windows computers since the days of windows1.0 and have used an iPad since the second generation of iPads and so have experience in both that goes back a while.  I've had a windows phone, and multiple iPhones.  iOS has gotten much easier to get data into and out of and promises to continue to improve.  

I use Finale on a MacBook Pro 15" now and prefer that to the Windows environment for some of the above reasons.  Unfortunately in my other line of work I can't get away from the Windows operating system but am hanging on to Win 7 as long as possible due to the automatic update issues regarding Win 10.  

While StaffPad is a great idea I would really would love to see Finale for iOS.  I understand the arguments made on behalf of the company regarding the resources that would have to be channeled into working on an iOS version.  I suspect that, unlike many other apps, the field of users for a music notation app is going to be smaller than for something like an accounting app or a personal finance app.  I also suspect that the developers of StaffPad are either relatively unfamiliar with the iOS environment or have some kind of personal grudge against Apple.  I work in health care and in my field the iOS side of the equation got the attention first because there are more users with it than with the Android OS.  With Apple products, things just work, because there aren't millions of permutations of the hardware and it makes for a smoother user experience.  I can't say so definitively, but I suspect that Finale for iOS would have a similar feel vs. StaffPad.  

So, if putting my request in a written form like this adds to any groundswell of "request momentum" here it is!  

Arthur West

 

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People used to rant about Linux versions of their favorite software. Now they rant about iOS.

I hope MM will invest their time in fixing bugs and improving what they have, not the OS of the moment.

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I would love to see finale for iPad. I use notion and it is very good but it is a pain having to export it as xml and import it into my mac to finish off the scores. Co e on MM develop an iPad version. You used to have songbook which was great even just to view files

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Add me to the list of people who would like to see Finale for IOS on an iPad Pro.  I'm no expert on the details of what's involved or the power of the various chips discussed above, but I would definitely buy it (and also get a new iPad).   

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Um, ok, I'm a newbie when it comes to notation software....but seriously? All this banter over something so common as iOS? All I want is to compose my music on Final Note on my desktop, then read it from my iPad while I am at my instrument (drums). Seems to me most of the remainder of the "free world" of app developers already figured this out. I like final note for drum charts, but not being able to use it at the kit without setting up a laptop or desktop is a game-changer. 

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I have been with finale for as long as finale has been around.  (Before that it was Encore).  I have literally thousands of charts and revisions of those charts that I use for myself and clients- solo, trio, big band.

I'm getting so confused with what I have 'cause now I do my charts, then I change them to pdf's so that I can organize them into sets using i-gig for my Ipad which, of course, I used for my gigs. 

So now I have two sets of stuff I'm working from- finale files and pdf's.  

The same thing happens while I'm playing from these files.  I see mistakes or revisions that I want to/need to fix.  If I don't fix them right away (and fix them in the other versions/keys and/or delete versions I don't need), it does not get done.

OK.  So, let's say I'm home w/my computer.  I play thru one of the charts.  I fix it.  Maybe there's other keys or versions w/lyrics and w/out.  I fix them as well.  Now I have to make pdf out of it.  Then I have to put those pdf into some kind of a folder for fixed pdf's for ipad.  Then when I get to the ipad, I have to remember which pdfs to delete and get the pdfs out of dropbox and put it into i-gig.

OK.  Let's say I'm at the gig using my ipad and I see the inevitable booboo on the chart (no matter how many times you look it over, right?).  I can't do anything about it cause it's pdf!  If I find some software that could fix the pdf (which I haven't for music), it's still wrong on the finale charts.  Let's say I do somehow fix it, am I going to remember the fix that was needed to fix it on the finale chart?  No.  Probably not.  

But while I'm here, FOLKS WHAT ARE YOU USING TO FIX MUSIC STUFF ON A PDF? IS THERE ANYTHING?

Now I've got so many versions of stuff- pdf's, finale files- all in different states of fixed or not and it is beyond confusing.

Here's the scoop finale.....

If you don't do some kind of an editing program for iPad, you will lose me to the first company that does a decent program for both.  

I am sold on the need for this.  I want access to all thousands of my charts so I can pull what I want in the moment.  I don't want to print out millions of pages of music anymore.  I want readers for my groups and I want to have whatever needs editing be edited in the moment and for that to fix it on both my computer and ipad with ease.  Maybe not at the exact same time, but with ease.  

This is so not working the way it is.

Finale, you are going to lose me and my dozens of students who I have loyally sent to you and have purchased from you over the years.  FOLKS, WHAT IS THE PROGRAM TO USE THAT WORKS ON BOTH THE COMPUTER AND THE IPAD?  I am ready to convert all my files ONCE to that program and stop the madness/impossibility of going back and forth from finale and pdf's or any other program.  

I'm sorry Finale but come on!  I just bought your newest upgrade.  I have spent my money loyally with you.  I have told folks no to Sibelius.  We need at least speedy edit!!!! I can't function like this.  It is such a mess!

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Just get a surface Pro

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Hi, William.

Does Finale run on a Surface Pro?

Is that why you purchased the device?

I love my iPad Pro, but getting my work done is far more important than love for a particular device.

And I've heard wonderful things about the SP. I'd seriously consider leaving the Apple ecosystem if Finale ran on it.

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I hear ya, but the surface pro is bigger and heavier.  I have one but I don't want to carry that to my gigs.  (I live in Manhattan and walk the mile and a half to one of my steady gigs).  The IPad is the perfect size- just big enough to read the music and no more.  Maybe there's a smaller surface pro?  I really like my Ipad.

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Janice,

Would marking up a PDF of a Finale file work for you?

I just discovered an iOS app that is a dream for doing that: Notability (App Store link below).

No, this isn't nearly as good as a version of Finale for iOS. Notability doesn't let you edit Finale files, which is what you, I, and everyone else on this thread want. But Notability is so good, I've ordered an Apple Pencil—something I thought I'd never do.

Here's the App Store link:

https://appsto.re/us/6HJFv.i 

Cheers,

Gregg

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Hi Janice and others,

Thank you for your use of Finale through the years. I appreciate your desire for Finale on the iOS and understand the frustration of dealing with multiple formats of the same file. We are researching potential solutions for such an eco-system. In the meantime, annotations on your PDFs and organizing your files in the iCloud or Dropbox type solution would be my recommendations.

 

Cheers,

Michael Johnson

VP, Professional Notation

MakeMusic

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Hi Michael,

Although I appreciate your nice vibe and your responding at all, I'm already using dropbox and the situation that finale has put me (us) in because of not moving with the times is just not working.

Can you put yourself in our shoes out here?  Imagine 1000 charts- make em in finale, make a pdf, eventually get it organized in dropbox i-gig, play em, see the problems, if you remember (and that's a big if), you need to go home, find that chart and all it's versions, fix it at home, redo the pdf(s), make sure you throw out the old one(s) in your dropbox, have the new one in it's very own folder 'cause you don't want it mixed up with the pdf's that have already been done and put in i-gig, remember to go back to dropbox i-gig and get rid of the messed up pdf, and put this one in your i-gig.

No way.....

Really.

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Janice,

I hesitate to use what may seem like a trite phrase, but I feel your pain. I really do.

This is why I said what I said above, near the top of this thread.

The simplest beginning for MM would be to produce an iOS version of Finale that included editing functions only.

While a great majority of us want more than that (including me!), almost everyone, if not every single Finale user, would find editing capabilities a godsend.

Start with letting me input and edit scores, then gradually add features as it's possible.

Michael, I wonder if the hold up is due in part to the need to asses APFS (Apple File System), the replacement of HFS Plus. It's already here for iOS, as the release of 10.3 is imminent.

But many expect it to be the core of macOS 10.13, which, if Apple continues the pattern of yearly releases of its various OSes, will likely debut in September.

I suspect MM is consumed by understanding the new file system and preparing to make sure the new Finale will play nice with Apple's new desktop OS.

I've wandered from the topic, Janice. The bottom line is that you, I, and many others need—need!—an iOS version of Finale.

I hope that MM finds a way to provide it before another company produces a universal app that runs on all major OSes.

Thanks to all for listening to me ramble on what I think is an important topic!

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Janice - I'm the OP. I use Notion iOS with an iPad Pro and it's awesome! I've been using Finale since 1995 and Digital Performer since 1993, but I've recently added Notion iOS and Notion for OS X to my workflow for several reasons.

My current notation workflow is Finale and Notion on the desktop and Notion iOS on the iPad. I have no problems exporting MusicXML files between the three programs. As long as the file produced by Finale isn't too heavy with Finale only features (especially if you have a custom AudioUnits or MIDI playback setup), you could possibly be very happy with Notion iOS as your mobile notation app.

I'll reply more later when I get home but it sounds like your workflow needs are similar to mine and I'm having great success using Notion iOS as my mobile and "on site" notation app for sketching orchestral cues and making really nice lead sheets. You don't have to have the Apple Pencil, but it is handy to have. Notion's handwriting recognition is excellent, as are the built in and expansion pack samples.

NotateMe is also very impressive for what it does. It has Photoscore built in and does an admirable job with the iPad's camera to scan scores.

I'd be glad to take an example score of yours and show you what it looks like when opened in Notion iOS.

Steve Steele

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Btw, IMO, iOS's lack of an accessible file system is not in any way a henderance or reason to not use an iOS device.

iCloud has worked very well for me. In fact, I've grown to prefer it. Notion iOS automatically creates its own folder on your iCloud Drive. Exchanging files is a piece of cake and they're accessible from anywhere where you have wifi or cellular.

With iCloud and AudioBus I've yet to find a reason to really need a file system for iOS music apps. And as a former Apple employee from the 90s, if I felt it was a problem, I'd definitely say so.

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Hi, Steven! It's good to see/hear what you're up to with Finale, Notion, and the iPad.

I'm fascinated by your workflow. I definitely would look into it if my needs were similar enough to yours and Janice's to warrant it.

You see, although I am a composer, arranger, and pianist, my primary use for Finale is as a music engraver employed by a publisher. So my stock in trade is creating and editing Finale files as a part of a production workflow with the end goal being a PDF fille that I can hand off to our prepress department.

I am, though, quite happy that you've found a workflow that, well, works for you.

Janice, I hope Steven's system is worth a shot for you. It certainly sounds like it might be a solution worth contemplating.

Again, Steven, it's good to see what you're up to.

Peace to all in the midst of the storm!

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I'm super grateful for the suggestions, input and empathy.  It's nice to know there's folks out there that can relate.  

 

I bought the pencil yesterday.  I don't think I'm going to have time to look into all of this till tomorrow.  (That's also when I can get the hubby on board. He's a computer guy.  :)

 

I would love to see one of my files would look after they came thru Notion.  

 

Thank you again.  My fingers are crossed....at least until the gig....

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Hi Janice et al.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and concerns. I do feel your pain and as a musician continue to look for solutions to the problems we face. Thanks to Greg and Steven for their feedback and suggestions as well. Unfortunately, the only hurdle to Finale on the iOS is not the file system. As I said previously, we will continue researching potential solutions for an ecosystem that protects copywritten assets, provides appropriate flexibility, and provides a business model that works for all parties. 

 

Great discussion! Thank you all.

Cheers,

Michael Johnson

VP, Professional Notation

MakeMusic

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Thank you Michael and everybody.  

I did check into Notion.  For me, it's not a great solution, unfortunately.  Switching back and forth between xml and musx doesn't work well.  I do most of my stuff at home on finale.  I just really need to be able to look at those finale charts on my ipad, be able to organize 'em ala i-gig or forscore, and do editing- simple and/or speedy.  

Please keep trying.  

Thank you

Janice

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Janice - How long did you spend with Notion? You're going to have to do some setup work first before you can exchange XML files between the two programs. Besides, what other options do you have on iOS anyway?

You'll need to create a template in Finale that can exchange smoothly with Notion.

Document Options...
Manage Parts...
Staff Attributes
Groups and Brackets
ScoreManager

Those are the main ones.

Then in Notion you need to build a template that has roughly the same options and attributes.

You can use the built in sounds or use your own libraries and have the exact same libraries for both desktop programs.

If you don't want to buy Notion for the desktop, and only want to exchange files between Finale and Notion iOS, it can still be done but you're a little more limited.

However, if you're just wanting to edit notes and maybe some text, that's certainly doable without much fuss, especially if you don't export with a bunch of different default fonts. But even that can be gotten around.

Remember that in Finale you can save Document options as a .lib file. Once you make your changes in Notion, and upload it back to the cloud as a XML file, you could just apply a document lib file and depending how deep your scores are (are they jazz lead sheet or huge film scoring templates?), that plus a few other things might need updating.

Again, it depends on the type of score. For example, the Finale score Rose Avalon - in Music Files/Worksheets & Repertoire/Repertoire/Jazz/ - can be opened in Finale, exported as a MusicXML file to iCloud, then opened in Notion iOS with no problem whatsoever. Make any changes you like and save it back to iCloud as a MusicXML file and open it in Finale. Apply libraries as needed or make your own because Finale and Notion can use each other's fonts mostly.

But if you're going to exchange the same types of documents or templates over and over again, then that gets simple because the styles are predictable.

Good luck!

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