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I think my title says it all

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Hi all:

Sorry to disappoint, but we do not have immediate plans to bring back the tempo too. We do have plans to provide an easy and intuitive control over tempo in a logical and refined MIDI Tool. We also need to clean up the hierarchy of the tempo controls in Finale (Expressions, Human Playback, MIDI Control, Continuous Data, Playback Controls). It is a mess and we have to fix it. I agree with you Craig.

Cheers,
Michael Johnson
VP, Professional Notation
MakeMusic

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I agree PLEASE!

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I don't know about the tempo tool, but I keep finding myself in situations where tempos jump all all over the place.  Sometimes this is after an import of an XML, but it has happened in other cases.  It always takes me a long time to figure out what might be causing the tempo changes, as that can be MIDI data, an expression, a tempo tap or ???

This whole area needs work.

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Michael,

What is the new and easy method for changing tempo by a percentage in the new and improved midi tool? What are the plans for implementing this functionality. It was easy with the Tempo Tool. Is MM telling me that I don't need to do that? That I should use a fixed tempo set with expressions for all situations? If a percentage change can be made to tempo please tell me how to do it. AN example of where it is used is going from a duple section to a triple section and back to a duple section. A measure of one section should equal a measure of the other and back again when played with the playback tool.

Pat Rice for Pam Chang

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Hi Pat:

 

There were several reasons the tempo tool was depreciated. One of those reasons was all the Tempo tool functionality can be accessed via the MIDI Tool by editing the Tempo data. To change the tempo for the entire piece:

  • As with either the Tempo or the MIDI Tool, confirm the preference found in Finale/Preferences/Human Playback for MIDI Data Tempo is set to either HP (Incorporate Data) Or No HP Effect.
  • Select the MIDI Tool
  • Select all (Cmd+A). You could also select a region per your example of changing from duple to triple and back to duple.
  • Select Tempo Tool/Tempo from the menu if it isn't already selected
  • Select Tempo Tool/Percent Alter... from the menu
  • Enter the percentage as you would have in the Tempo Tool

As has been stated by many, there is work to be done on controlling the tempo in Finale.  

 

Cheers,

Michael Johnson

VP, Professional Notation

MakeMusic

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Hi Michael,

You are incorrect in saying that ALL Tempo Tool functionality can be accessed in the MIDI Tool. I've had an extensive conversation with John H. about the feature that has been deprecated that I use extensively and would love to see be available again. Talk with John. He should be able to show you the feature has not been implemented.

Pat

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Thank you for the tip, Pat. I will clarify with our CS representatives.

 

Cheers,

Michael Johnson

VP, Professional Notation

MakeMusic

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Hey Michael

As you've seen from my other posts, I have to agree 100% with Pat.  There's no way that MIDI tool comes anywhere near the ease and functionality that the Tempo Tool had. 

You have to jump through so many more hoops to do what Tempo Tool used to do.  With Tempo Tool you didn't have to re-select an area in a bar to make a tempo change.  You could do it directly in one window and alter a bar and its sections however you wanted.  Beat 1 could be a tempo, beat 1.75 could another then beat 2 could change.  Easy to alter specific note lengths and simulate small fermatas within a bar.  Practically impossible to do this with MIDI tool and you are also wrong by suggesting one use Percent/Alter.  This doesn't have the same flexibility Tempo Tool had. 

Boggles my mind that MakeMusic doesn't see this.  Guess you guys never really used the tools you created.  It's a shame especially coming from Product Management.  My suggestion is for all of you to go back to an older version of Finale and try it out.  You will see that it's easy as pie, super flexible, and very convenient not having to go back and forth between selecting areas of a bar or bars.  Everything could be done within one window.

 

Pierre

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I hope MM doesn't follow the path of many...to keep making improvements until it ceases to work. I've explored the midi tool, and expression changes, but none match the tempo tool for its simplicity, elegance, and ease.

Val Smalkin

SmallKinMusic.com

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Hi Pierre and Valerie:

Thank you for your thoughts and feedback. I do use the product and have been since version 3.5. Improving tempo management is high on our list of improvements around playback in Finale and we will take all of your feedback into consideration. 

 

Cheers,

Michael Johnson

VP, Professional Notation

MakeMusic

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Thank you.

Val Smalkin

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I love the sound of a refined MIDI Tool

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Michael,

Have you verified with the CS representatives that there is functionality in the Tempo Tool that has NOT been ported to the MIDI tool? I'd like to hope it hasn't fallen into a black hole.

Pat

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Hi Pat:

 

I've confirmed, as mentioned, there was an ease of use in some situations that the Tempo Tool provided. Nevertheless, there is a bigger remodeling of how tempo is handled throughout the entire application. Playback controls, Tempo management, Human Playback, and the MIDI Tool have definitely not fallen off the roadmap.

 

Cheers,

Michael Johnson

VP, Professional Notation

MakeMusic

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Your customers have asked for the Tempo Adjustment Tool back and you said NO - haha, GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!

Now when is the next version of Sibelius coming out?

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Hi Andrew:

 

Please read my last post. We plan to improve Tempo handling throughout the entire application that will encompass the Tempo Tool and much more. I've acknowledged the ease of use of the Tempo Tool in some situations and our design will address those problems. I firmly believe simply bringing back the tempo tool would be a shortsighted solution. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

Cheers,

Michael Johnson

VP, Professional Notation

MakeMusic

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Michael wrote "I firmly believe simply bringing back the tempo tool would be a shortsighted solution."

I look forward to seeing the new solution.  I agree that a fresh approach is needed for managing tempos.  This is an area that can be confusing and a time-burner (no pun intended).  A more elegant, intuitive solution would be welcome, I believe.

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So, I have been emailing with Lawson Dutton about the tempo tool removal and the Midi Tool as its replacement. From everything that I have read and and from the communication that I have had with MakeMusic, the Midi Tool is supposed to be amazing and easy to use. So far that is not even close to being true.

Lawson Dutton has been providing some great advice. The functionality is there and it works about 45% as good as the old Tempo Tool. It is supposed to be intuitive and simple for the user. From my point of view the simplicity is on the programmer's side and not the user. It might be easier for them to create this version.  But we, as consumers, have the shit end of the stick. We have lost our ability to write music and listen to it the way that would want. I think that MakeMusic has lost sight of what they should really be doing.

I am part of the Army Band and there are several of us that compose and arrange music for our various ensembles. We are all frustrated with the Finale 25 and its lack of functionality. Two of the writers have moved to Sibelius and have had no issues. I may be joining that initiative soon as well. MakeMusic needs to listen to their customers or they will lose them all.

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I have had a Finale program for many years. I would update only occasionally because it did everything I wanted it to do. Every upgrade would do what the earlier one did, plus new innovations and easier applications.

I ran into a situation when I updated my iMac - and, in fact, purchased a new iMac. I was informed that my Finale 2010 wouldn't run on the new Mac OS. So, as soon as I purchased my new iMac, I bought the Finale v.25. I am surprised that the new version of Finale has something LESS than the old one - namely the Tempo Adjustment tool. I would use this to allow the music to slow down (or speed up) for a few measures, then return to the original tempo. Then, it could be played back for accompaniment. I am quite disappointed that I am not able to do this anymore.

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Hey Kenneth

 

If you read earlier posts you can see that what happened to you is exactly what happened to me.  The Tempo Adjustment tool was soooooo easy to use and extremely flexible.

I know you're going to get an official reply same as all of us did, telling you to use the Midi Tool as the substitute for the former awesome Tempo Adjustment tool.  If you read some of my previous posts, you will see that this certainly is not the case and that the Midi tool requires several additional steps in order to achieve the same effect as the Tempo tool which only required one window to do it all. 

I agree with you that this Finale 25 upgrade lacks the better features of its predecessors and as you use it more and more, you will find many other features that made Finale special that are no longer available.  SmartScore for instance is no longer part of Finale.  Another huge blow for us composers and musicians.  No flexibility in making the desktop more appealing.  No themes, no different kinds of icons.  It's become a cold and sterile software.  The fact that we were forced to use it because of Sierra OS on Mac is pure trickery and complete deception.

I'm still extremely angry that a company would go backwards when upgrading.  I always thought that upgrades were meant to improve a piece of software, add more useful feature and make it better.  In this case, there are less features which makes the software less than adequate and is a definite step backward.

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this.  My sympathies to you.

Pierre Massie

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And then you might get a rather snippy response suggesting that you are a whimp for complaining, and surely YOU are smart enough to figure out the new way of doing it (suggesting, of course, that you are less that smart for not figuring it out.)

Blech...

 

Val

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Thank you all for your honest feedback. We work hard to improve Finale, add value, reduce complexity, simplify workflows, remove defects and design omissions, add new functionality, and stay current with the ever-changing operating systems. We absolutely keep the needs of end users front and center as we work through problems. It is unfortunate when changes do not match expectations. It is not our intention and I apologize for that experience and perception. As I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, we plan to improve the playback workflows of Finale, especially as it relates to setting and adjusting tempo. Again, thank you for your thoughts.

 

Sincerely,
Michael Johnson

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Please, bring back the tempo tool!!! It's easy and practice! Now I have to open my project in Finale 2014 so I can work with tempo tool there! And then I open again in Finale 25 to continue working.... It's not at all smart to take away the tempo tool!!!

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I can't wait to see what Finale 26 holds regarding tempo and playback :)

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Getting rid of the tempo tool was and is a major disappointed for me, too. v25  ?WHY? (did you do that) It was so easy to use. I feel like you guys should bring it back asap and give (for free) to all your customers who have upgraded to the newer versions. What a disappointment. Why should anyone buy the newest Finale version if it is less user-friendly than the older ones? 

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A visual interface that overlays on a stave and allows users to draw in tempo (and a host of other midi parameters) is the obvious answer. There can be no easier solution. The % will still be visible anyway (one would hope).

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