Dear Peter,

I think that I am all set for my project with your able guidance.

Though I had troubles with the 'staff styles' at the initial level, I have come to understand how the user defined styles are very flexible to meet one's end. At the initial level, after inputting the music in four layers, I tried to apply the style ' chords and lyrics only (16)'. Surprisingly, only the soprano was hidden from view. It seems that the style works only when no layers are present.

When I applied the other style viz. 'Hide the staff and collapse (13)', I had a hard time in bringing back the Bass staff which I had collapsed. I don't know whether there is a way out to bring back the staff that I had collapsed. As usual, I used the 'export as a midi' tool to get the data back and reworked on it. 

The 'custom staff style' that you suggested was perfect to meet my need and I think I will be able to take off with the project now on. Thank you and your team who showed patience with me. 

Below is the sample that I have arrived at.

… At the initial level, after inputting the music in four layers, I tried to apply the style ' chords and lyrics only (16)'. Surprisingly, only the soprano was hidden from view. It seems that the style works only when no layers are present …

… When I applied the other style viz. 'Hide the staff and collapse (13)', I had a hard time in bringing back the Bass staff which I had collapsed …

What I would do:

1) Staff Tool.

Staff menu > Show Staff Styles (select)

Staff menu > Show Staff Style Names (select)

Do not worry! They will not print, and they will only show in the Staff Tool.

2) Switch to Scroll View.

All staves are visible in Scroll View, even staves that have been hidden via 13. Hide Staff (and Collapse).

From Scroll View you can select, and clear the staff style.

By The Way:

In your attached graphic it looks like you have been using ties in place of slurs.

Ties connect notes of the same pitch.

Where the notes do not have the same pitch, use slurs instead.

You can find slurs in the Smart Shape Tool.

Dear Peter,

The information that you gave on staff on the scroll view was great. I was able to get the data that I had previously lost in view through applying the styles such as Force Hide Staff (cut away)12 and Hide staff (and collapse) (13). By and by, as I learn more of Finale, I begin to feel that I know too little of it.

Incidentally, I begin to wonder that there must be some technique by which I can hide the lyrics view temporarily, as I need to edit on the treble staff once I have moved the lyrics over it (in the case of chords and lyrics only). What I now do is that I cut the lyrics in verses 1, 2 and 3 and paste them in verses further down, say verse 4, 5 and 6. After editing, I hide the staff and paste the lyrics back in appropriate places.

I have also noted down that I could modify the available staff and to meet my end. The custom staff styles seem to be document specific.

With regard to the Smart Shape Tool, I have problems. I wonder whether the problem is due to my computer (iMac of late 2009 model) or the incompatibility of the Version of Finale in Highsierra 13.6. Recently I upgraded to high sierra for the sake of newer version of Logic Pro and I have some troubles in other softwares, I suppose. 

For example, Finale now and then collapses (quits unexpectedly) and I need to reopen it. The sound card (Apogee ONE) that I use also does not work in Finale. The sound card works with Logic Pro. However, when the sound card is on, Finale Quits. Thus I manage without the sound card through ' play Finale through midi' tool.

However, what I am worried about is the behaviour of Finale with regard to the 'Smart Shape Tool'. I am able to apply the slur shape by double clicking or dragging to the desired note-head, in the case of phrases. When I try to print as pdf, the shapes disappear to nowhere, to my dismay. The printed part does not have the shapes. However,' the ties' are intact. The shapes disappear in the Finale document itself after I initiate the print process.

That is why I am managing, as for now, with the ties tool. If there is incompatibility issues that has been brought to your notice, you may Kindly guide. If the problem is pertaining to the operating system, I need to consult the computer service man.

The version of Finale that I use in iMac is v25.10.232. Thank you for your patience. 

Arulmani,

It is time to tell you the (secret) “Finale mantra”:

The first 10 years are the hardest.

;-)

1) … there must be some technique by which I can hide the lyrics view temporarily, as I need to edit on the treble staff once I have moved the lyrics over it (in the case of chords and lyrics only) …

Staff Tool.

Double-click the staff.

In the Staff Attributes, in the pane Items to Display, de-select Lyrics.

2) … staff styles seem to be document specific …

Indeed staff styles are document specific. This is by design, and what users have requested. To get the desired staff styles in all new documents, create a custom Finale template with the staff styles you need, and use that template when you create new documents.

You can also modify the existing templates (and perhaps delete staff styles you will not ever use).

Beware that the templates are located in three different folders*), depending on how you create new documents:

A. File menu > New > Document With Setup Wizard…

The templates for the Document Setup Wizard are in the folder Document Styles.

B. File menu > New > Default Document

The templates for Default Document are in the folder Default Files.

In the {Preferences - New} you can specify, what template in Default Files should be the Default Document.

If you have not specified a Default Document, then the Default Document will be Maestro Font Default.

C. File menu > New > Document From Template…

The templates are located in the folder Templates.

*) To get to the folders you need to open the Library folder in your user account.

Hold down Option, and use Finder’s Go menu to get to the Library folder.

Path:

(Library folder)/Application Support/MakeMusic/Finale/Music Files/…

3) … When I try to print as pdf, the shapes disappear to nowhere …

I can not explain why your smart shapes disappear (Finale v25 should work in High Sierra), but here is an idea:

Instead of “printing” to PDF, try the Graphics Tool, and export pages as PDF.

If the smart shapes are in the PDF created via the Graphics Tool, then you can print the PDF.

Dear Peter,

Thank you for your comments and guiding tips.

I smiled at your comments regarding the Finale Mandra. Finale is not that sophisticated that a person needs ten years to apprehend it. It may happen to be like that because every user is concerned with what Finale CAN DO TO HIM at a particular span of time rather than what FINALE IS CAPABLE OF. Unless one is up to taking classes on Finale or write a book on it, he is not going to get engaged in all the aspects of Finale, I suppose.

For example, the script Finale seems to support has excited me many a time as though to imagine that I can get a script written to make the Finale to output the Carnatic Notation. However, I have never gone further than that. Since I know no programming language, the script support of Finale may remain far to me lifelong. To strike the point, Finale has always come to my aid from time to time to get just what I needed from it at that particular point of time.

Hiding the lyric has been just a click away. It has come to light when I needed it. Thank you for your patience with me.

I have been using templates, so to say, though not the way Finale has been designed. When I have arrived at a document that best suits my need, I use it for creating other documents by 'save as' technique. Thus it never occurred to me to go in to the technical aspect of creating one. However, I shall try now to see the advantages.

You will be happy to know that I have overcome the difficulty with the smart shapes. The problem has been with the particular document. When I tested the smart shapes with a new default document, the shapes worked. Thus, I copied the music from the problematic document and pasted it in the default document and thus I got it worked. I have replaced the older file above that carried the ties in it in the place of slurs. Kindly check.

I have given the link to the file that misbehaves. you may Kindly check.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xvZz3ZGMtaPw87aKD3WbSL5yCKWfbDgh

I have examined the Finale document that misbehaves.

The culprit is that you have two (conflicting) staff styles that both hide smart shapes.

Dear Peter,

Thank you for pointing out the untick at smart shapes at the style applied. 

I slowly begin to understand the logic Finale follows in creating blank staff styles. At first, I was given to understand that since there are four layers, four different styles have to be applied to each layer separately. In order to minimise the number of styles, Finale, I presume, has been designed such a way that one style can control both layers in a staff. Thus, I wonder whether "Other Layers' should be rather as 'Other Layer (singular)' in the Alternate Notation dialogue box. Please enlighten me. 

Arulmani,

There are four layers:

Layer 1, Layer 2, Layer 3, Layer 4

I am not saying that you will ever need it, but you can use all four layers simultaneously, in the very same staff.

Hence the wording ‘Other Layers’ (plural) is correct.

You can e. g. have Blank Notation in one layer, and show all the notes in all the other three layers.

Dear Peter,

Thank you for the great information.

I am working at the templates. Most probably, I would come up with it by tomorrow. 

Dear Peter,

I have found a new issue.

It seems that the latest suffix that I used is technically wrong. I had used, for example, ‹‹1153Fm. Finale has recognised it as a suffix in its totality. That means, it displays in the 'Chord Suffix Selection' dialogue box as ‹‹1153Fm. In effect, when I transpose a music the Chord Name is not transposed whereas if I use the chord suffix as Fm‹‹1153, Finale displays in the 'Chord Suffix Selection dialogue box as m‹‹1153. Thus when I transpose this chord, the Chord is transposed. Thus, I need to rework on the suffixes so that Finale recognises the Chord Name and the suffixes as different entities.

By the by, I will be out of station from Monday to Friday. I will not have access to my Finale and computer there. Thus, I will be able to work on it only by the weekend and approach you for further guidance. I request your patience with me.

You can give the suffix any layout, and position each suffix character independently of where the other suffix characters are positioned.

Dear Peter, 

Let me update this chat explaining the issue concisely before I make my way. 

The issue is like this. Since I made up mind that I won't use the Finale Chord playback and instead I would use the Grand Staff to input the music and then hide the layers, I just used prefixes rather than postfixes. Thus, instead of creating a Chord such as Fm‹‹1153, I created it in the order it would display as ‹‹1153Fm. Finale accepts it as such and it considers the whole set as a unit. When I inspect the suffix selection dialogue box, the whole set is available as a unit.

Instead, when I create a chord such as Fm‹‹1153, Finale accepts it. However, it does not display F while giving positions in the suffix editor. Thus, when I inspect the 'suffix selection' dialogue box, only ‹‹1153m is available. Thus, when I create the chord in this format, I am able to use the suffix for any other chord. When I use a chord Cm‹‹1153, for example, I save time that Finale displays the Chord. But in the former case, I need to create suffixes for each chord with a chord name.

You may Kindly check with the finale document that you have already downloaded (the document that misbehaves). you may try transposing the hymn to a different scale, then you would have an idea of what I am saying.

I am not saying that the Finale has to behave differently. I just want to give you the information that I have learnt that I have to give the degrees of the chord and the octave indicators as post fixes so that I could save time by not needing to create other chords with the same pattern of degrees but also there is an advantage that I can use the document to transpose it.

Arulmani,

In the Chord Suffix Editor you can use negative position numbers.

This means that you can position any suffix character anywhere:

- above the root,

- below the root,

- before the root,

- after the root.

Dear Peter,

I am happy to be back to the forum.

I managed to get a laptop with Finale installed in the Windows 7 ultimate platform. And I worked on it. I have reworked on the custom suffixes and they are fine to be transposed and are cute to be used for other chords with the same suffixes, as well.

I post-fixed the suffixes with minus values in points, the measurement units, as follows ( for eg. m«1135 ) :

(0,0), (-18,0), (-18,9), (-12, 9), (-6, 12), (0,12).

In Mac platform, one can easily insert the double backward pointing angled quotation mark with option(alt)+Shift+3. But however, in windows platform one has to use the character map to insert the angled quotation marks. This makes the work slow in Windows platform. Otherwise, the scenario is fine. 

I created a template with .ftm extension and placed in all the three places viz. the document styles, default files and the templates. The latter two places are faster to get access to. The first method of accessing via a wizard is not apt for the present project. I shall create an appropriate template in case of ensemble situations later, if needed.

I have one more query about the templates to be updated. Suppose I add new suffixes as I work in various documents, Please enlighten me on my presumption that I need to update the template with a newly saved library every time. 

… Suppose I add new suffixes as I work in various documents, Please enlighten me on my presumption that I need to update the template with a newly saved library every time …

If I understand you correctly, you need to have the new suffixes in all new documents created from the template, right?

Yes, you need to update the template every time. (since chord suffixes are document specific, not program specific)

One way to do it:

1) Open the template, and create the new suffixes in the template.

Save the template.

From now on, all new documents created from the template will contain all the new suffixes.

2) You can save a library with the new suffixes, and load that library in old documents.

Dear Peter,

Thank you for the clarification.

The second method you are suggesting for updating the 'old' documents is useful for updating the template, as well, when the new suffixes are many in number.

I think, I have come a full round. Indeed, you have guided me through from zero level, so to say, because I had literally no idea about creating the suffixes and the custom styles, when I launched in to this forum. Your patience with me has been much remarkable. 

When I came up with a request for a 'new' feature in Finale, you have established that the feature is already available.

A BIG THANK YOU.

Dear Peter,

I like to update on the suffix feature. 

There is a problem with the double angled quotation mark which is accessed in the Mac platform through option+\. In the suffix editor, the Finale displays the single quote (') and in the document it displays the double angled quotation mark. As a result, when the same suffix is used a second time, Finale considers it as a new one. Thus, I have used single angled quotation mark which is accessed through option+shift+3 twice to meet the need.

The measurements is as follows: (Gm7‹‹1735, for example): (0,0), (8.5,0), (-18,0), (-15,0), (-18,9), (-12,9), (-6,12), (0,12).

In the windows platform, there is no problem with the double angled quotation mark which is accessed through the 'Character Map' entering 00AB as the unicode/select/copy/paste.

I have prepared three templates: 1. Lyrics and chords only 2. With treble clef 3. With grand staff.

The first two will be opt for my project. The first model is as below:

The second model is as below:

Thank you so much.

… which is accessed in the Mac platform through option+\ …

It is not that simple.

A font character’s keystroke depends on the “keyboard layout”.

In the Mac OS control panel Keyboard you can choose between many keyboard layouts.

Which keyboard layout you are using now, I do not know.

But for work in Finale it might be a good idea to - sometimes - switch to one of the english keyboard layouts - since Finale was developed on American keyboard layout.

By The Way:

Your attached example shows music notated with a key signature of 4 flats.

But the 4th flat (= D♭) is never used, and you frequently need to cancel the flat on D.

I would notate the music with a key signature of 3 flats.

You can easily change the key signature to 3 flats - and hold the notes to the original pitches (rather than transpose the notes).

It only takes a few steps in the dialog box Key Signature.

Dear Peter,

Thank you for your kind observations. I was busy with carols yesterday.

I have checked in my 'system preferences' the keyboard. It is English (India) since the region is selected as India. Even after changing to English (US). The problem remains. I use a USB 'QWERTY' keyboard. Even with the asterisk symbol (*). Finale behaves the same way. The asterisk (*) is replaced with the symbol ~.

However, no problem, since I have worked around it by using ‹ symbol twice as ‹‹ and Finale works fine.

I have changed the example hymn as you expect by using the key signature dialogue box by choosing the second option "Hold notes to the original pitches'. Here is the result:

Incidentally, I like to get a clarification regarding the key signatures in modes. You seem to prefer the following, if I have understood you correctly:

My preference has been, the following:

In my preference, I presume, the tonic chord is easily identifiable. I like to know whether my preference is non-standard.

“The good thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.”

I have seen both ways:

- Minimizing the number of note accidentals,

- Notating all keys as “modifications” of major or minor.

Do not worry whether your notation is “non-standard”.

If it works, go for it.