Rehash on tempo mark staff assignment

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MARK PETERSON Posted August 28, 2017 17:27

OS: W10 v1703

So, it's been a while... As others have posted previously, I am having difficulties with the new way of assigning tempo markings to staves. I've read many of the old posts in the previous forums, and it still confuses me and is taking me way more time than the new way is worth. (BTW, I never like it when a software company introduces a feature that restricts my ability to do what I want, whether it's the way it's supposed to be or not.)

SO, I have a simple score with a vocal line and a piano accompaniment. I want to place the initial tempo marking on the Top Staff. I also have a place later on in the score where the vocal line has dropped out, and the accompaniment--and therefore ONLY the accompaniment-- has, and should have, a rit.

At first, when I Assigned the initial tempo marking, Finale placed it over both the Top Staff and the upper hand of the Piano (which is a group). After reading the forums, I went into the Expression Selection dialog box, did Edit Categories, and in the Category Designer changed the Tempo Marks category so that the Score / Score List 1 sets the tempo marking only on the Top Staff.

Then, I tried to Assign the rit. to the Piano upper hand. It of course plopped onto the Top Staff only. I went back into the Category Designer and clicked on the Tempo Alterations category, where rit. lives. I saw that my Score List 1 was still in the Score box, so I selected Score List 2 and changed that to be only the Piano upper hand staff. That worked.

After some further testing, however, I discovered that my next assignment of any Tempo Alteration went only to the Piano upper hand. I created a third Score List that places the marking on both the Top Staff and the Piano upper hand.

After still more testing, I found that the ONLY way to place a tempo marking exactly where I wish is first to go all the way into the Category Designer, select the Score List I desire to place it on, and then OK and Assign. I discovered that after I had done that, each particular tempo marking assignment stays put.

In summary, I have a score with three different and entirely valid tempo staff assignment possibilities--Top Staff, Top Staff + Piano upper hand, and Piano upper hand only. (The Piano upper hand marking of course ends up in the middle of the two Piano staves, not over the Piano upper hand staff.) I can create three Score Lists to accommodate these possibilities. But the only way to use the Score Lists is to go into the Category Designer and select it there before I Assign the marking.

There are eight Score List options in the drop-down menu. Why can I not find a feature in Finale that allows me to EASILY Assign a specific tempo marking, while I am Assigning it, to a specific Score List? And please do not tell me it's not done that way professionally--I can show you plenty of scores where all three of the possibilities I describe exist in the same score....

The old way of doing it was far more intuitive--maybe the old way allowed composers to break the publishing rules, but hey, maybe we composers actually want to be able to do that, without having the software company that we've been doing business with for over 20 years telling us that now they are the publishing police and they won't LET us break the rules if we wish...

2 comments

Date Votes

J ADRIAN VERKOUTEREN Posted August 28, 2017 18:20

I take it the empty vocal line is still visible where you want to assign the rit. to the piano r.h. (Otherwise the default "Top Staff Only" would do what you want.)

Your rit. marking should be in the Tempo Alterations category, not the Tempo category, Technically both should print only above the top staff (or in an orchestral score, perhaps, over selected major instrument groups), but you should be able to do what you want regardless. I admit, I am old enough to miss having piano/vocal scores put tempo-change info above the vocal line and between the staves of the piano.

My solution would be to replicate the rit. marking in the Miscellaneous category so you can put it wherever you want it, or else to use the Score List you have that puts the tempos and alterations above both vocal line and piano. (From there you can drag the piano expression between the staves if you want.)

I wouldn't make a new Score list for every custom location. For me that would be overkill.

MARK PETERSON Posted August 28, 2017 19:23

Correct - The empty vocal line is still visible where I want to assign the rit. to the piano r.h. The vocal line tails off a couple of measures before. Therefore, Top Staff won't work in that situation. (And having to reorder the measures in the score to force the vocal line off of that system, in order to make Top Staff work, should not have to be my solution...)

Please note that my original post does name the rit. in the Tempo Alterations category... (My post is rather extensive so it may get lost in the mix...)

Yes, I agree also to being old enough to miss placing p/v tempo changes above the vocal line and between the Piano staves. However, I have not only plenty of older sheet music with that setup, but also some recently purchased and downloaded sheet music files with the same. So, the concept is actually still quite relevant, and Finale should take that into consideration... (The old way used to!)

The solution to put the rit. in the Misc category would technically solve the problem, but it would then remove it from the other standard categories, so any benefit I may have had in using those standard categories would disappear. So, the overall problem still exists, and judging from my reading of the older forums on this subject, it seems, from the MakeMusic replies, that they simply wish to enforce the issue...

I first purchased Finale 24 years ago. I bought Finale 1993 and have faithfully upgraded it almost every year ever since--so I have invested a lot of money in this program--because I find that it has far more power to do what I want than any other notation program out there. I have also recommended the program to anyone who will listen, and I often wear Finale T-shirts to market it that way as well. I am highly displeased that the very reason I stay with the program--flexibility and power to do exactly what I want--is being slowly imploded so that it is less flexible and intuitive and powerful than it once was... As a faithful customer, and user-marketer, over many years, I hope MakeMusic takes my voice seriously in this issue...

I just did some more testing. I have to retract one thing I said: If you change the selected Score List for a given Category, it does in fact instantly change the staff assignments of all related expressions. I also found, however, that one can hide one or more of those assignments; for example, I selected Score List 3 (Top Staff + Keyboard, for me) for the Tempo Alterations category, which instantly added the rit. over the Top Staff (which is what I don't want), but then I did a Right-click on that upper rit. and unclicked Show. This hid that rit. (i.e., it still shows on my screen but with a more transparent font) while still showing the one I want in the piano. But the fact that it's still half-visible to me is extremely annoying, as it should not be there at all...

So, based on your recommendations, to do what I want to do, and what piano/vocal scores have been doing time immemorial, I have to either: a) put all of my tempo markings in Misc so I can explicitly control where they go, which then denies me any benefit from using the standard categories; or b) make one Score List for Top Staff for the entire Tempo Marks category (to accommodate the initial tempo marking), one Score List for the entire Tempo Alterations category (to accommodate any tempo markings that apply to both voice and piano), and then put the rit. that applies only to the piano in Misc.

Way, way, way, way, waaaayyyy too complicated!! Finale developers, please read the posts of those who have had this same problem over the past few years, especially in the now-closed forums, and find a way to make this issue user-friendly again! You are not the world's notation police--please allow users to do as they wish, and make Finale as flexible as possible!

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