I suppose that you need a 15ma bass clef in the Finale document, right?

You can create the clef in the Clef Designer - since the Clef Designer allows you to use, not only a font character, but also a {shape, created in the Shape Designer}.

In that way you are not limited to fonts that have the 15ma clef symbol.

In the Shape Designer you can combine fonts freely.

Concerto for Bass Glockenspiel?

I more interested in knowing why you would need that clef?

Yes, 15ma (I don't have enough Italian to be able to guess how 15 notes above should be expressed.) Fughetta font just uses a simple 8 or 15 above/below the G clef & F clef without any abbreviations.

In any case, I'll try the Shape Designer. Thank you Peter T. I had been hoping that someone would have made this character in a font since G clefs are already available with 8 above and below, and 15 above, and the F clef is available 8 above/below plus 15 below.

Not sure why it matters, but my use is for a teaching document for young players studying the bassoon who may not have any facility reading treble clef. In the document I'm preparing for teaching purposes, they will have violin material rendered in bass clef but with the indication 15mb so that they understand they are playing it 2 octaves lower than the original.

Thanks again Peter,

Michael Sweeney.

Michael,

I'm sorry to say this, but you are doing your students a disservice by teaching them something wrong. The reason it doesn't exist in the fonts is because it doesn't exist in music.

There's no real reason to tell them where the original was. Do what people have done for centuries - take the treble clef violin part, transpose it down an octave or two until it's in the bassoon range, and let them play it. They don't need to know how far off it is from the original.

And if you "invent" a shape for an "invented purpose" to show them this, you're really doing hte opposite of what teaching music is supposed to do. Call me a purist or a traditionalist, but there's a reason those symbols don't really exist.

These clefs with the 8s are kind of a modern convention to show instruments that transpose by octave - initially tenor voice parts written in treble clef, then Guitar (where it's commonly seen). But anyone who knows anything knows that Guitar music sounds an octave lower than written. Same with Tenor when written in Treble (though a few other clef symbols have originated for it as well). We don't do it for Contrabass or Conrabassoon (though now we can and I'm sure some do).

But it's a little silly - I mean, are we now going to start putting "2" under the clef for Trumpet and Clarinet (I have seen a 5 for French Horn, I think in Kurt Stone's book where Finale took a lot of its information early on)?

8va, and 15ma are used ABOVE the Treble clef to tell a player to play the written notes an octave or 2 octaves higher respectively.

Likewise, the same two symbols with "b" in place of a (for bassa) are used BELOW the Bass clef to tell a player to play the written notes an octave or 2 lower.

15 is generally only seen in Piano music, or possibly other instruments with that much range.

8 is generally used when an instrument's range extends above or below the staff and it's being called on to play notes in that register in a context where you'd get so many (or too many) ledger lines.

But a Trumpet, who's lowest written note is E below the Treble staff (3 ledger lines) should not have the E written on the first line with an "8vb" below it.

Violin and Flute constantly play above the staff, so 8va is common in their music. But a Violin can go down to G below the staff - no need for an 8vb there.

Clefs with "8" attached to them are not used for this at all - or rather, traditionally are not supposed to be.

Instead, they're used to show that the music you are reading will sound an octave lower on that instrument. But the instrumentalist should already know this.

IOW, when I see a score for Guitar with an 8 below the Treble Clef, I know when I play what is written as middle C, it's going to sound an octave lower than written. But I play THAT EXACT SAME NOTE if the 8 is not present!!!! That 8 doesn't (and shouldn't) tell me to play an octave lower. It's just a reminder for people reading the music that it sounds an octave lower than written. But plain old guitar music without the 8 is played the same exact way.

I can't think of many (any) instruments that sound two octaves lower than written (or higher). But if there are, they're still written on the staff and the player plays the notes they're taught.

Your bassoon players shouldn't need to read treble. Bassoon players read Bass clef primarily, and Tenor clef when the range gets high - and that's not something beginners do.

When they play C in the Bass staff, it sounds C in the bass staff. You shouldn't be putting an 8 above or below their clef, because they don't sound an octave higher or lower than written. A 15 is out of the question.

Simply write the violin notes in the bass clef in the instrument's range, and teach them to play the music. Done.

Respectfully,