Finale Copyist Text Font Character Set

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Denver Seifried Posted July 20, 2017 20:29

I have been trying to shift a lot of my enclosed test expression, with enclosures over to Finale Text Font; as it is a very clear font for "English" in the score & parts. I use Broadway Font for my notation font-of-choice.

When I was using the Broadway Text Font for a text expression, like...........2X Only. I enclosed it in Broadway Text Font, using alt-0133-0134 (straight line) and ended the enclose with alt-0135. The Finale Text Font Character Set uses the same keystrokes, for the same enclosures. I have changed the font when I go into the "Expressions" drop down and changed to Finale Text Font. It doesn't work.

In my Finale Copyist Text Font Character Set, alt-0134 is a blank box, also. There is no straight line in the box, like there is in the Broadway Character Set.

Any ideas? I am sure I am just making a simple mistake.

30 comments

Date Votes

Official comment

MM_MICHAEL JOHNSON July 25, 2017 19:29

Hi All:

Sorry, you're having problems with the 0-width enclosures, Denver. I think J Adrian has answered the question for you. I wanted to chime in to help clarify issues.

Broadway Copyist is similar to the Jazz font. So, the upper ASCII mapping is identical. While this is a good thing if you're familiar with the Jazz font; it is a bad thing in that the bugs in the Jazz font were perpetrated in B.C.

Finale Text is a brand new font that doesn't suffer from many of the problems older fonts. This is a good thing if you want to share your files between platforms or use with a modern operating system, it is a bad thing if you're used to the older fonts. To restate, the mappings between the Broadway Copyist and Finale Text are different by design.

As Avremi stated, we are aware the documentation for Finale Text is incorrect. I apologize for that problem and assure you the documentation team is working on it. In the meantime, here is some helpful info:

Finale Text [ also slot 0091 = Broadway Copyist 0133 = the 0-width starting enclosure bracket

Finale Text Shift + 6 = Broadway Copyist 0176 = the 0-width short "over" enclosure

Finale Text \ also slot 0092 = Broadway Copyist 0134 = the 0-width long "over" enclosure

Finale Text ] also slot 0093 = Broadway Copyist 0135 = the 0-width ending enclosure bracket.

To summarize, on both Mac and Win in Finale Text, you can type "[A\bc]" and get:

If you want full enclosure use: you'd type {A|bc} (add shift to the brackets). True on Mac and Win

If you want under enclosure, you'll have to use Alt+ numbers:

0249 for start of enclosure (Opt + Sh + t on Mac)

0251 or 0238 for the continuation (Opt + Sh + 8 or Opt + i, i on Mac)

0252 for end of enclosure (Opt + 4 on Mac)

And I would be remiss to not mention as fo 25.4, you can round the corner of any text block or expression enclosure.

Here's what those look like

Finally, Mike, please stop suggesting the only solution on Mac is to go into your App bundle and pull out fonts to use them. That is simply not true, not recommended, and not necessary.

Again, I apologize the documentation is incorrect. Thanks to all for helping Denver with the original problem.

Cheers,

Michael Johnson

VP, Professional Notation

MakeMusic

MIKE ROSEN Posted July 20, 2017 21:15

Please add the program and version you are using to your signature, in the user control panel.

The newer versions of Finale are unicode compliant, so all of the ALT codes may no longer be needed. You can use the Insert>symbol dialogue, or, even better, PopChar for Windows. http://www.ergonis.com/products/popcharwin/

Denver Seifried Posted July 21, 2017 03:09

Sorry Mike, I forgot to add my information from the old Finale Forum. I am running the latest Finale 25.4.1.152 on a Windows 10 Desktop Computer.

MIKE ROSEN Edited July 21, 2017 16:56

Denver,

I'm on a Mac, so I can't give you specifics. However, they are definitely in the Finale Copyist Text font, as you can see in the screenshot of the Text>Insert>Symbol... frame.

You might also want to consider an app like PopChar Windows which makes it pretty simple. http://www.ergonis.com/products/popcharwin/

Denver Seifried Posted July 21, 2017 20:22

Mike, thanks so much for your suggestions. Using the symbol selections does work and do exactly what I want. I also I can get this using some simple key strokes involving the bracket keys, which are just to the right of the "P" key and using the \ key. This works a little faster, I just happened to find that by accident and a little experimentation. Thanks so much for your time and getting me headed in the correct direction.

This isn't the first time you have helped me through an "issue" and I appreciate your help! I remember you from the old Finale Forum. Might you also be a trombonist?

MIKE ROSEN Posted July 21, 2017 20:58

Denver,

Glad I could help.

No, no trombone, or anything else. (Very) little guitar and uke. Bass 2 choral singer.

J ADRIAN VERKOUTEREN Edited July 21, 2017 21:41

Woodworker (see, I remember too).

And Barbershop?

MIKE ROSEN Posted July 21, 2017 23:04

Woodworker, yes, as long as my back holds out! Barbershop, I don't sing anymore, but I'm a volunteer copyist for the Society, updating old handwritten or early printed scores.

MIKE HALLORAN Posted July 22, 2017 01:11

>Bass 2 choral singer.<

I understand that other ranges exist. I can hear them but my mind doesn't grasp the concept of how the human voice can sing as high as, say a baritone.

AVREMI GOURARIE Posted July 24, 2017 19:31

Part of the issu for enclosures in the Finale text font is that the ALT characters found in https://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/FinaleWin/Content/Finale/Finale_Copyist_Font.htm?cshid=9517 do not work. MM has agreed this has been an issue since the font was introduced - yet it has not been addressed

MIKE ROSEN Posted July 24, 2017 20:07

I can't check anything with that, since I'm on a Mac.

JAV, can you try it out?

J ADRIAN VERKOUTEREN Edited July 24, 2017 23:03

Okay: to get the text block above on a Windows machine, I typed

ALT+0091 (since all Alt escape codes are four digits long; also have to hold the ALT key down for the entire sequence)

ALT+0092

ALT+0093

(Hope that was what you meant, Mike R.)

MIKE ROSEN Posted July 24, 2017 23:30

That's just what I meant. Thanks!

So why is Avremi having a problem? What is the issue that MM has acknowleged?

AVREMI GOURARIE Edited July 24, 2017 23:48

Well, not sure where you got those (correct) Alt codes, but according to https://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/FinaleWin/Content/Finale/Finale_Copyist_Font.htm?cshid=9517&_ga=2.91451418.1851715508.1500912385-1358157064.1499466897 those codes should be Alt 0133,0134 & 0135. (as Broadway text) But they do NOT work for Copyist Text! Where did you get your codes?

MIKE ROSEN Posted July 24, 2017 23:55

I guess it's possible that the font was remapped, but the documentation wasn't updated. It wouldn't be the first time that documentation was wrong.

AVREMI GOURARIE Posted July 24, 2017 23:58

Correct. It seems it was re-mapped. I wish they'd update the documentation. (btw, dumb idea to remap so it's not switchable with Broadway or Jazz)

Denver Seifried Posted July 25, 2017 03:03

Avremi...............you found the same issue, I was referring to. The ALT0133, 34, 35 do not function correctly in Finale Text Font. As you can see in an above post of mine, I also got it to work by using various "bracket keys" and the \ key. J. Adrian, great to see the correct ALT XXXX codes to make it work using ALT Codes.

Thanks for all of your very informative posts to my issue.

MIKE HALLORAN Posted July 25, 2017 07:45

Not sure how much this has to do with things but this link

https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/217585418-Music-fonts-display-incorrectly

does not have the latest version of the Finale fonts, introduced in December, 2016 with Finale 25.2.

The only way that I could get the latest versions installed on my Mac was to delete all Finale fonts from Font Book.app and reinstall the fonts from Applications/Finale/Contents/Resources. If you click on all the fonts found there and then Install, this puts copies in Font Book. That solved a number of font problems I was having.

AVREMI GOURARIE Posted July 25, 2017 19:45

Michael, that's very helpful info. Thanks. Could you provide info on 'under' enclosures as well

MIKE ROSEN Edited July 25, 2017 20:18

Updating the documentation should be done as soon as an error is found. IIRC, the fast updating was trumpeted as a great improvement when the move was made to only have the online documentation. I'm sure that the correct chart could be compiled and posted in just a few hours.

Avremi,

Just by counting on the chart, and comparing them to Mark's numbers, I come up with Alt codes 0164, 0165, and 0166. Just for fun, try them out, and see if they work for the full surround!

AVREMI GOURARIE Posted July 25, 2017 20:15

Agreed. This error was acknowledged by MM a couple of years ago. Should be easy to fix

AVREMI GOURARIE Posted July 25, 2017 20:16

Btw, this forum i s randomly choosing signatures for me that have nothing to do with me. WTH?!

MIKE ROSEN Posted July 25, 2017 20:19

Hey! Mine is wrong, too!

I'll send it in as an error.

J ADRIAN VERKOUTEREN Posted July 25, 2017 21:51

Mine too. I Submitted A Request about this.

MIKE ROSEN Posted July 25, 2017 21:53

You've got mine!

BTW, how should we refer to you? JAV, or Adrian, or something else?

Lawson Dutton Posted July 26, 2017 14:24

Hi All,

I received Adrain's tickets about the signatures yesterday. We are currently in the middle of some updates that prevent me from debugging this issue; however, we can certainly take a look at this as soon as we publish these updates.

Thanks for pointing this out!

MM_MICHAEL JOHNSON Edited July 26, 2017 17:28

Avremi: I've updated my "official" post with more information on the full enclosure and under enclosures keystrokes. Remember, at any time you can go under the text menu / insert / symbol... to see all the characters of a font, the slot number, and the name in the lower left corner.

Mike R: I can understand why you would make those assumptions. Thanks for your patience.

Cheers,

Michael

MIKE ROSEN Posted July 26, 2017 17:28

Michael (Johnson)

Please differentiate between Mike Halloran (Mike H) and me (Mike R)!

J ADRIAN VERKOUTEREN Posted July 26, 2017 21:45

Mike R,

Most people call me Adrian, but I answer to JAV too. Thanks for asking.

(And if I had to have someone else's credentials in my signature--for this thread--I certainly can't complain about having yours--although I don't think anyone would want to trust me with woodworking tools.)

MIKE HALLORAN Posted July 26, 2017 22:25

We are currently in the middle of some updates that prevent me from debugging this issue...

It certainly looks strange. While you're at it, can we finally upload profile pictures?

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