… a key signature where G♯ and A♯ are the only accidentals in an 8 note scale …

I suppose that you do not mean “7 note scale” - right?

But your words “a key signature where G♯ and A♯ are the only accidentals” only give a 7 note scale:

E♮ - F♮ - G♯ - A♯ - B♮ - C♮ - D♮

How do you get to an 8 note scale?

Please specify the 8 scale steps.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. The "scale" is: D#, E, G, G#, A#, B, D nat., C#

So, accidentals are unavoidable in every bar, I just want to create a key signature that minimizes them. Thank you!

Gary Eskow,

In your first post you only mentioned G♯ and A♯, you forgot C♯ and D♯.

But this is what you mean:

- right?

Or perhaps not (?)

The so called “Messiaen’s deuxième mode” is an octatonic scale pattern of

Semitone - Tone - Semitone - Tone - Semitone - Tone - Semitone - Tone

Your example can be changed into Messiaen’s deuxième mode by replacing {D♯ - E} with {E - F}:

Perhaps this is what you mean?

Don't know if my response came through yesterday...here it is again...Thank you!

Yes, that's correct...I was basically trying to understand the process, thought I'd

Hi Gary,

For the scale I have written, I suggest that the only key signature accidentals are C♯ and A♯.

Then, notate all occurrences of G♯ and D♯ with note accidentals instead.

This notation will minimize the number of note accidentals.

Here are the steps:

1) In the dialog box {Nonstandard Key Signature}, click on Next twice, to get to Linear Key Format 2 (since the Linear Key Formats 0 and 1 are “hardwired”).

For the Linear Key Formats 0 and 1 the first three “modification buttons” are greyed out. But in Linear Key Format 2 all five modification buttons are active.

2) Next, position the cursor inside the {Nonstandard Key Signature} dialog, and scroll vertically until you have 2 sharps.

The two sharps will be on F♯ and C♯.

3) Click the button {Acc. Order}. The dialog box {Accidental Order and Amount} appears.

4) For Unit 1 (= the first sharp) the Step Level is 3 (= F).

Change the Step Level to 0 (= C).

5) Click on Next, to get to Unit 2 (= the second sharp).

Change the Step Level to 5 (= A).

6) FYI: Unit -1 is the first flat; Unit -2 is the second flat, &c.

7) When you have changed the Step Levels, you may need to move a key signature accidental to another octave.

To do so, click the button {Acc. Octave}.

You can set a separate octave for each key signature accidental, and in each Clef.

In a Finale document there are 18 customizable clefs, numbered from 0 to 17.

About the clef numbering:

The first Clef is Clef 0 = Treble Clef

The second Clef is Clef 1 = Alto Clef

The third Clef is Clef 2 = Tenor Clef

The fourth Clef is Clef 3 = Bass Clef

&c.

You can see the document’s 18 clefs in dialog boxes such as {Clef Designer} and {Clef Selection}.

By The Way:

If you transpose the scale up by a half-step, you get the simplest possible notation, namely a key signature with a single accidental of G♯, and with D♯ as the only {note accidental scale step}.

Thanks much!!!

… For the record, I actually switch between the mode above and the following:

D♯,E,F,G,Ab,Bb,Cb,D …

With a little enharmonic conversion the mode looks like this:

That mode is the “upside-down” inversion of the first mode.

For that mode, too, there is a transposition with the simplest possible notation of only a single key signature accidental scale step (A♭), and only a single note accidental scale step (D♭):

Got it, thank you! Both modes have to be centered around the same tone...I think I'll finish this movement based on Eb on paper, since I have it in my head, and then take your suggestion and put it into Finale a 1/2 step higher. Hopefully, I will be able to understand my instructions!