Yes. SmartScore Pro exports XML, and that imports into Finale 25.

The great advantage of the real SSP (as opposed to the lite version that came with the older Finale) is that you do most of the editing before you create the XML. Once you learn the new program, you will be delighted with how much time you will save.

I have done hundreds of scores with it, so I feel qualified to recommend it!

If you have any questions about the program, you can drop me a line at wawoodman at aol dot com.

Just to say that I sympathise, Liz. That's the biggest reason why I still have Finale 2012 installed alongside Finale 25. I'm not quite sure what MM are trying to achieve by getting rid of scanned input, but I doubt that it's working. I have to say, though. that Finale 25 has cleared up a number of very irritating bugs and seems much quicker, so I wouldn't go back.

Simon (and Liz,)

Have you tried the demo of the full SmartScore program? It really is better. Although I, like you and so many others, was upset when Finale dropped the scanning option, I have to say that my productivity doubled or tripled when I went to the pro version.

So in the long run, thanks, Finale!

Thanks for your responses and the information on SSP.  

I thought Finale had shown utter disregard and contempt for its customers  because 1) I had already spent quite a bit with all the upgrades I'd purchased over the years and they had seemed to remove most of the utility Finale had for me; and 2) I had seen that the import TIFF function had been removed from v25 and since my built-in OS scanner app doesn't produce any format that the new Finale would take, it looked like I was upgrading on a path that would ultimately lead nowhere for me.   My plan was to keep 14.5 until it was no longer supported, either by Finale or by evolving operating system and then switch to Sibelius.  

Although I hesitate to shell out another $200 for SSP, at least I know it's an option.  It's good to know that OCR function of SSP is a lot better than SmartScore Lite and there is much time to be saved by spending the money.   But I wouldn't go so far as to say "Thanks, Finale" :-)

Had you scanned as many scores as I have, you just might!

I certainly wouldn’t go to Sibelius, just for that reason. It wasn’t a matter of disregard nd contempt, as much as it was covering their collective butt. Prior to the release of F25, someone (and I don’t know that they were ever identified) brought up the idea that scanning would violate copyright laws and make stealing someone else’s work too easy. Never mind that this has been possible ever since the Xerox machine came along. In any case, the lawyers prevailed, and the scanning was removed.  

I agree that that's probably why they did it - I imagined they had been leaned on by some of the big music publishers.  I read the rather pious explanation by one of their vice presidents that they were only protecting the interests of the small composers.    I pointed out to them that the xerox machine causes much more harm to authors and composers and that most of us used the scanning funtion for transposing music we had already purchased or music in the public domain.   They might as well try to outlaw the xerox machine.   Anyway, to me it seemed disregarding to their customers to succomb to this logic. Somehow Musitek has managed to stay in business.

Again, thanks for the info on SSP and how it has made your life easier.   I'll give the demo a try.

MM announced that scanning would be removed two years ago and gave their reasons. They emailed everyone whether you read it or not—that was June 20, 2016, two years ago today. They were clear as to why they did it and you can still read it here.

https://www.finalemusic.com/blog/page/15/

For myself, being in the copyright protection business, I disagreed and still do. No matter, the decision was made. So be shocked, horrified, outraged, bla, bla, bla... howl at the moon or whatever... One thing is clear: You are two years too late to the discussion.

You have two choices nowadays. One costs $99.99 and is only a little better than SmartScore Lite. You still can’t edit before you save as MusicXML. BTW, this is the app that was to be bundled with Finale 25 and pulled two years ago. Oh, if you don’t like it after spending the hundred bucks, the upgrade to SS X2P is still $199.00

https://www.scoringnotes.com/news/musitek-introduces-smartscore-music-to-xml-a-pdf-music-scanning-converter/

The other is SmartScore X2 Pro. I upgraded six years ago and never thought twice.

Sibelius? Oh please. Their licensing scheme is a clown car nightmare. If you are used to Finale, you won’t like their work flow. The upgrade to the pro version of PhotoScore costs even more after you pay the license fee.

,

Mike H, I am with you entirely with respect to Sibelius. I have tried it and no, as you say, I don't like its workflow. After so many years of working with Finale and getting used to its idiosyncrasies, (not to mention having a large score library now) it's far too late to change. As regards SmartScore Pro, I do so little scanning these days that I can't justify the cost.That said, Mike R, I might out of idle curiosity have a go with the demo version to see how good it is at scanning lyrics with diacritics. Or not!

Simon,

My experience has been that one of the weak spots of SS is in text. So I wouldn't expect too much from it there, particularly with diacritics. My work flow has always been to scan the music without text. Once I have the music right, I move that to Finale, and re-enter the lyrics and text, there.

Still, give it a try, and let us know how it works for you!

I realize this took place a while ago.   I upgraded and then returned  v25 some time back.   They made their decision, customer opinions and interests to the contrary,  and that was that.   

I just didn’t know that SSP would work with v25 and now I do.  That at least gives me an option to be able to continue on the Finale upgrade path.   

Once you’ve invested years of effort into learning the ins and outs of a complex tool, it’s difficult to want to start over with a new tool.  But I know several people who have used both and prefer Sibelius.   I can’t comment on their relative merits, having only briefly seen a friend use his.  The initial dollar investment is pretty hefty though, so all things considered — money, time, learning curve, I will probably go for SSP and stay with Finale.  

I’ve had reasonable results with text and expressions in SS X2P. There was an earlier SSP that was discontinued around 2011 or so that couldn’t handle text IIRC — I didn’t think much of it.

Most of my scanning is done from my old Encore scores. I could just export/import via MusicXML but Encore can’t export lyrics. Scanning these scores in SS X2P gets them better than 99% and saves time (I like that).

Well, folks, out of curiosity I have tried SS X2P and I must say that I am completely underwhelmed. The text recognition for any language with diacritics is truly appalling. However, I found that there is a competitive product, Neuratron's PhotoScore, which unlike SS has a load of extra plug-in languages for text recognition, and like SS produces MusicXML files. I tried it, and it is immeasurably better, around 90% correct, and I suspect that most of the errors were the result of the particular font I use. It also correctly handles things like DCAF markings above repeats, which SS messed up, at least on my test piece. However, PhotoScore is an expensive beast, costing even more than SS, so I think I'll leave it alone. On the other hand, at least I know where to go if I do have a pressing need for a good score scanner.

I’ve looked at PhotoScore. For what I do, it’s no better but there are reports that it handles handwritten scores better (better being a relative term). Not an issue for me. But $249 as opposed to $199... if it does the job you want, spend the extra $50 instead of putting up with a tool that can’t cut the gig. Yes, the full bundle is $369 but the version of PS is the same.

I wonder what the PS price would be if you could just buy it instead of all the bundles. That they don’t offer a competitive upgrade keeps users like me from having a copy in my Applications folder for those occasions when it might be the better app.

SmartScore Pro hasn’t had an upgrade in 6 years (and I don’t consider Music-to-XML as it’s inferior in many ways). Neither it nor PhotoScore are 64 bit (I downloaded the latest demo this morning to make sure). Really? It’s way past time. I don’t know about Music-to-XML since the only way to download is to buy it—no thanks.

Mike, 

Don’t worry about missing Music-to-XML. Since the recognition engine is the same as SmartScore Pro, it will yield the same results as the old SS Lite that used to be in Finale.

Simon,

How was the musical recognition? I had the feeling going in that you wouldn’t be happy with the text.

To Mike R's point, use what works. For myself, I declared SS Lite useless around 2002. That app and my opinion of it were unchanged when last offered with Finale 2014.5. Heck, you can get PhotoScore Lite for $59 stand-alone. This is what comes with Sibelius. Again, No thanks!

Tools that do the job you need cost less than inexpensive ones that don't. Does anyone really need scanning software? Not really—you can do it by hand (yea, right!).

It all comes down to one question: What is your time worth?

I would urge all of you to try "NotateMe"  - an iPhone/iPad app.  Then - within the app - purchase the "PhotoScore" upgrade.  You are all-in for about $70 (the price when I got it in 2017).

I don't use NotateMe for the supposed hand writing recognition of music - I have no need for it.

What I use the app for quite regularly though is scanning via the "PhotoScore" upgrade.  That original $70 gets you the full version engine of Photoscore put into your phone/iPad. I've been told it's the same tech. as the full blown PC version.

You simply take a picture with your phone camera and in about 3 seconds you are saving an xml file to your favorite cloud site.  Don't bother editing anything within NotateMe - just save out the xml file.

Does it work?  YES!  It is significantly better than SSPro (I own it too) and you don't need a scanner - especially an oversized scanner to capture those oversized parts/scores, etc. -  Just the phone's camera - back up till the entire page is in the frame.

I use it to scan single line instrumental parts - comes out almost error free with the correct measures, keys, rhythms, etc. consistently. There are occasional text cleanup issues, but the music is very accurate.

I've not tried it on large scores or any vocal music parts with lyrics - just instrumental stuff - but it does work. And again - $70 - plus - no need for a scanner.

Has anyone else used this combo since scanning was removed from Finale?

Thanks all for your various suggestions on scanning tools.  I’ll definitely try this last suggestion.   I’ve downloaded and tried both demos for SSP and Photoscore and am not seeing a lot of improvement over SS Lite.   This may be because the music I work with often is that pseudo handwritten jazz font, and neither program seems to like that very much.  With a Mac I have to use either my built-in OS scanning program or the one that comes with my HP scanner/printer, so perhaps those aren’t the best tools.  

I wonder about trying to use a picture for a full-blown score, but I guess it’s worth a try.  I also mostly work now with transposing individual instrumental parts, so your solution may work out for me as well.

Any thoughts or suggestions on working with these so-called jazz fonts?

What I use the app for quite regularly though is scanning via the "PhotoScore" upgrade.  That original $70 gets you the full version engine of Photoscore put into your phone/iPad. I've been told it's the same tech. as the full blown PC version.

Really? Can you edit files before exporting? If not, this makes is as close to PhotoScore as Music-to-XML is to SmartScore X2 Pro. Both claim to have the same engine as their desktop counterparts but it's not the same as ... well ... actually having the deasktop applications. No. 

>With a Mac I have to use either my built-in OS scanning program or the one that comes with my HP scanner/printer,<

Do the HP scanner apps for Mac even work anymore? Yikes. Use Image Capture.app, part of the Mac OS. It works quite well with HP All-In-Ones.

Nice idea, Doug, but I don't think it helps me, I'm afraid. As a minimum I need full SATB choral score handling in Spanish, French, Italian and (most of all) Catalan, with or without piano accompaniment. Unlike Liz, I don't do individual parts, so on those rare occasions when I want to scan something in, I really need the full capabilities of PhotoScore Ultimate. The lite version simply doesn't cut the mustard. Thanks for the suggestion, though. 

Sorry, Mike (R), I forgot to answer your question. SS X2 Pro works pretty well for music recognition, certainly better than the lite version, but it's not as good as PhotoScore, at least on my test piece, which was a fairly straightforward single-page a capella SATB score in Catalan.

Thanks, Simon!

Mike H.:

Yes - you can edit inside of NotateMe, but I never bothered as the scanning was better than SSPro and the small number of fixes needed were quicker for me within Finale.

If it's about the scanning - NotateMe/Photoscore on my iPad has the highest success rate, period. I'm faster at editing in Finale. Your mileage may vary, however...

>Yes - you can edit inside of NotateMe, but I never bothered...<

Having read the manual, I can see why. 

http://www.neuratron.com/NotateMeGuide.pdf

Its editing is ... well, unacceptable to me which is why I never really used it (turns out, I have had NotateMe for years). Notion for iOS is far superior, IMO.

I don't recall what I paid for it on first release but I know it was nowhere near the $39.99 it is now. PhotoScore is a $29.99 add-on and only editable in NotateMe. No thanks. I'm not even interested in seeing if I could import the xml into Notion and export it off my iPhone that way.

I may sketch a bit in Notion but have no interest in an iOS black box solution, neither NotateMe/PhotoScore nor Music-to-XML. I want to scan and edit on my Mac before exporting the .xml files.

>Your mileage may vary, however...<

Exactly. As to the desktop, I'm happy with SS X2P for now.

As to the future, whichever app goes 64 bit first gets the next dime I spend on this. I've declared a personal moratorium on 32 bit apps since there may be additional performance issues in the next Mac OS and Apple has promised they will have no support in the one that follows.

If one is really considering an iOS/Android black box solution, there are two. One is Neuratron's NotateMe/PhotoScore for $79.98 (PhotoScore is an add-in only). The other is Musitek's Music-to-XML at $99.99. At first glance, looking at price alone, Neuratron would be the obvious choice but not so fast—it can only convert pictures. The Musitek product can also convert pdf files.

If you want to edit on your iOS device, Notion for iOS is $14.99 and is way better than NotateMe. Android users are out of luck as it's iOS only. I have compared both and though Notion is far superior, I wouldn't use either on my 12.9" Pro. Life's too short; may as well edit in Finale.

Like all iOS apps, there is no trial but Musitek encourages you to email or upload a file that they will convert at no charge.

Another issue with NotateMe/PhotoScore -- you have to make sure your iPhone or Ipad is a newer one.   The camera required for uploading a successful picture to PhotoScore is a 5M.   Apparently my IPad Pro is too old (the earliest model from 2015!) to have this.  

It seems to me that if one doesn't mind editing in Finale, which I don't as I'm pretty quick at it, that the Music-to-XML is a cost effective solution.  With printed scoresI have to use the Apple Image Capture app for scanning anyway, but a lot of my music collection is already in pdf.     As long as it captures triplets, dynamics, articulations, which are tiresome to enter, it should work for instrument part scanning at least.  

It sounds like you prefer editing in SSP?   Is it really a lot faster than Finale?

Thanks, again.

Absolutely. Particularly with triplets, which, in my experience, the scan recognition is likely to miss. In Finale, you have to find the misrecognized triplets, and then use either the tuplet tool or delete/reenter the triplet. In SSP, you see the misrecognized measure (it’s pink), tap the T key to enable the triplet tool, and drag across the notes. Done. Note was an eighth, instead of a sixteenth? Easy fix, without the notes jumping around.

All in all, once you learn the program, you will cut your time down by an immense amount. Don’t waste the $100 on the lite program.

What Mr. Rosen says. >...you see the misrecognized measure (it’s pink), tap the T key to enable the triplet tool, and drag across the notes. Done.<

In SS X2P, you don't have to guess what the unrecognized notes are. Fixing things, likewise is easy since all you are working towards is a file you can export once edited. Layout etc. is what you will do in Finale anyway.

>All in all, once you learn the program, you will cut your time down by an immense amount. Don’t waste the $100 on the lite program.<

I firmly believe that the extra $99.01 for X2P is money  well spent.

What is your time worth?

After all the discussion and weighing of the scanning options kindly presented by the respondents, I decided to go ahead and get SSP X2.   While it did require some study of the quick reference guide to learn the editing commands (which are different than Finale's), recognition was fairly accurate (even with the pseudo handwritten print of jazz charts) and not having to enter articulations, slurs and dynamics saves a lot of time.  I especially like the split screen showing the original image on top and the recognized version of the bottom, which makes it easier to quickly correct any errors.   While I still have to devote more time to learning about SSP's features and functionalities and the software isn't cheap, I think in the long run it's the way to go if you do a lot of scanning.   Finale 14.5 isn't going to be tenable forever.  

Thanks to all of you for your advice.