Does anyone know whether Jari Williamson will update his plugins to work with SMuFL fonts in Finale 27 and beyond?
Probably only Jari. He has been very quiet for a while, and his website not updated for some years: I hope he is OK, at the very least.
A lot of essential functionality in Finale relies on one individual -- be it Jari, or Tobias Giesen, Robert Patterson or Jan Angermüller -- and that's never a great place to be.
Robert Patterson (a well-known developer of plug-ins) has just announced the release of RGP Lua, which is free and can use 99% of the existing Lua scripts. The feedback is very positive.
For now at least, most of the JW plugins I use function as before (including the crash that always results with JW Accidentals if I change any parameters). But it’s insane that so much functionality (and necessary functionality) relies on one person. These things should be baked into Finale and I’m sure they could purchase them if need be. JW plugins are free and I use them way way more than TGTools, which for me never had much use since purchase. I don’t use Perfect Layout; it’s way too rich for my blood and my scores do not have much in the way of any markings so probably not needed. The one thing PL might be helpful for in terms of my workflow would be page layout; honestly, Finale still makes page layout far too problematic (would it be too much to ask MakeMusic to get away from inputting numbers and having more things that can be adjusted in real time graphically?). The fact that one can’t drag a system and easily align it with the corresponding system on the preceding page seems so 90’s.
Anyway, if Perfect Layout were far less expensive and didn’t then charge down the road for updates, that might be different.
But MakeMusic should strongly consider acquiring the JW plugins. They really are critical for most/all of us. JW Rhythm has made my Finale experience so much better, and it costs nothing. Perfect Layout, given that most of my music is > 400 measures (seriously; you pay more for a plugin if you have >400 measures? Just on principle I will never pay for this silly plugin), would cost more than I paid for NotePerformer (worth every $ for sure) or GPO or even a Reason update. If you’re a composer rather than someone who is getting paid to notate, I’m just not sure how this is financially rational.
I agree with you 100% about TG Tools being of little importance to Finale. The only one I ever used is/was the "Align" selection. The JW plug-ins are fantastic especially JW Change and JW Polyphony. MM should exchange their weak "Change" utility for the JW Change version.
However, you are 100% wrong about Perfect Layout but you sound just like me before I actually got it. I went back and forth with Jan about how little worth PL would have for my work. Now that I have had it for a long while, I can't see me using Finale with out it. I have even gone back and updated old score with PL.
MM is shortsighted for not embracing PL as a built in feature. You don't worry where Finale is putting things. You just write your music and when you are through or just close to being done run PL. Something not correct or you need to change something, do it and just run PL again
This seems so simple, a no-brainer, but MM seems so distant. Can they not see the others gaining and surpassing in some cases? These three plug-ins, JW Change, JW Polyphony and Perfect Layout, backed in and under MM control would be game changers.
As to you, David, you need to give PL a try. You really do! I almost didn't but I am glad I did.
Understood. Will take it under advisement. I totally agree though that stuff like this should be in Finale. For most of us to have to really rely on third party stuff to get things done efficiently is ludicrous given that finale is a work of professional software. It’s not like these plugins are addressing very specialized and uncommon needs. Thanks.
Thank you all for the informative discussion. I've been looking at Perfect Layout as well. However as far as I can tell it does not replace some functions from JW Plugins essential for my work: automated feathered beaming (which Sibelius has had natively for at least 15 years!), easy ways to change noteheads for notation of percussion and non-standard instrumental techniques, hiding various elements of notation, etc. Likewise the TG Beam breaker plugin saves tremendous amounts of time for me. Clearly MM does not find those kinds of features economical to adopt in Finale's native set. I'm looking seriously at other options...
Agree. Most of what I use various plugins for are not so much layout-related but directly related to getting the notes and rhythms etc on the page as I compose or for making tweaks to multiple measures. JW Change and JW Rhythm Copy have proven essential. Even JW Tie/Untie notes is a time saver. TGT less so but a lot of that is simply because I don’t have hairpins or slurs or a lot of details like that (writing minimalist music does that to you). While most of the JW stuff I use still works, it doesn’t always work stably. Even JW Lua or RWPLua (the forward-thinking update from Robert Patterson) crashes if I change certain parameters. Same with JE Accidentals; really useful plugin but it would be even more useful if I could change parameters without it crashing.
That really concerns me; there is no way to submit bug reports, no tech support and no expectation of updates. The developers (especially Jari) are very generous to provide these free plugins and it’s ridiculous to expect them to provide free support and fixes. But longer term, these things will become unusable as Finale or the OS evolve, unless they are incorporated into Finale proper. It’s one thing for there to be add-ons to MS Office or Photoshop as these add-ons tend to be commercial products that are used by tons of people and are supported overall. Shareware/freeware often just vanishes. I’ve dealt with several Mac utilities over the past 1-3 years that were very useful and I had paid for them. Their developers essentially vanished. No response to emails and no updates. JW plugins et al are not going to be there forever without investment and support. Even Perfect Layout relies, I’m told, on Lua, which isn’t going away necessarily but certainly has not been fully stable on my system at least (see above).
Having used finale since the early 90’s as a composer while having a very different day job that occupies most of my time, I’m not looking to suddenly take on Sibelius or Dórico. I’d like Finale to flourish as all of us do, I’m sure. So how can we either push to have MM incorporate this necessary functionality into Finale or at least support future development and enhancements of many of these plugins? Again, much as I love JW plugins and appreciate their zero cost, I think optimally they should be part of finale or else reasonably priced to support regular bug fixes and updates. And while I appreciate the passion many folks here have for Perfect Layout, isn’t it silly for us to spend nearly $200 (with half that in addition for future updates) for a plug-in that a lot of people feel is so critical to the use of Finale? I was able to justify purchasing GPO5 and NotePerformer because both make a huge difference to my audio output and I can’t expect that to be built into Finale (which of course is a notation program at its core). But these plugins are directly used for notation so why shouldn’t they be part of Finale? Thanks.
Guys keep in mind Perfect Layout is for finishing your composition. Not composing it. It doesn't replace those plug-ins we all use and love. Yes, it has made some obsolete for sure though.
it silly for us to spend nearly $200 (with half that in addition for future updates)
Perfect Layout Silver 400 is $90 bucks and some bug swats and improvements a free. Most folks do not need the higher optioned versions of PL.
But these plugins are directly used for notation so why shouldn’t they be part of Finale?
You are absolutely correct. Plus most people feel the same way. Why is MM so stubborn? Only they know! The thing is if Finale has certain features it doesn't mean you are forced to use it. But if it doesn't you don't have that option. Like Sibelius offers, perhaps MM should offer levels of Finale with an ultimate version with all the good stuff.
I always say it comes down to one of, or both, two reason. They don't have the money to, or they don't know how to.
Guys keep in mind Perfect Layout is for finishing your composition. Not composing it. It doesn't replace those plug-ins we all use and love. Yes, it has made some obsolete for sure though.
agree 100%. I tried to make that exact point
Perfect Layout Silver 400 is $90 bucks and some bug swats and improvements a free. Most folks do not need the higher optioned versions of PL.
unfortunately some of us do write >400 measures in a work. So that wouldn’t work for me (even if I omit the 4-hour 15 min work I wrote a few years ago for piano).
David,
A bunch of us should continue to query MM support to make our issues known and gain some priority.
Been there done that! So, all I can say is good luck.
some of us do write >400 measures in a work.
It isn't 400 total measures in a piece. Do yourself a favor while you contact Jari, contact Jan at Perfect Layout. He will process a sample of your work so you can see how well, or not, PL works.
Been there done that! So, all I can say is good luck.
Understood. But I have found MM to be much more responsive by email these days so, while I'm probably naive, I'm going to try. If others do similarly, that should hopefully raise this to a higher priority.
It isn't 400 total measures in a piece.
From Elbsound's site:
"...a big band score of 200 measures and 18 instruments would be fine, while a piano piece of 600 measures is too much as it exceeds the 400 measures limit."
So yeah, it would seem 400 measures means 400 measures. That would be fine for some of my works but most of them would never work. That's just me.
Do yourself a favor while you contact Jari, contact Jan at Perfect Layout. He will process a sample of your work so you can see how well, or not, PL works.
Already sent them my last string quartet and am looking forward to seeing the results. Again, the biggest issue for me are the quirks with Page Layout (tool and in general). But happy to check out their demo results.
Agreed, but my latest piano work is around 525 measures and even a 20-minute string quartet (a pretty short work for me, LOL) is still over their limit. I did give him this one, and am curious what Perfect Layout does for it. Thanks.
Got it back from Jan. To be honest, PL had to do very little but it did make a few minor improvements and I'm grateful. Will see what version 3 has to offer and if there is any way he might be getting access to the Finale PDK (I'm hearing the currently state using Lua is much slower as would be expected, although I'm not sure how slow it really would be for me).
Yes, if you want, or need, the unlimited version of PL you need Silver and not Silver 400. Silver is $178 bucks (I think). However, if you seperate the movements, seperate files, you may still only need Silver 400.
Although PL shines for me in concert band work https://youtu.be/iuGX-Oq42bI I use it on my Bones Midwest charts and similar ensemble, Trombone Christmas, etc., groups as well. It is let's say insurance.
Bought Silver this morning and have been trying it out. Much of my more recent works don't need it that badly but it still helps. Other than some issues with cross-staff beaming in some old piano works, it's working very well. At the very least it should help with not having to spend a ton of time (as I usually do) to fix page layout issues. I was debating buying PL vs forking over $300+ for Dorico Pro and I'm all in with Perfect Layout + Finale (along with my usual JW, JW Lua and TGT plugins and scripts). Dorico can't replicate JW Rhythm Copy, and that single plugin is critical for what I often do (and JW Change is amazing as well).
I've not heard anything from Jari about his plugins, even on the newsgroup about it. Very concerned, because I have no way to otherwise report a reproducible crash with JW Accidentals. Happens every time: all I have to do is change the settings for the one profile it has, or create a new one, and as soon as I hit OK Finale crashes and anything I did to change the plugin profile or add a new one is gone. Been happening for a long time and across at least 2-3 different macOS versions so I don't think it's the OS. I'm of course running the 64-bit latest JW plugins.
That is something I've communicated to MM, although I'm not sure it's heard: we all rely on many of these third-party plugins that are not included in Finale. That's a huge issue long-term. If these plugins like JW Rhythm Copy simply went away or stopped working as Finale or macOS evolves, then I have far less reason to stick with Finale. What I've sensed for a long time is a lack of imagination and commitment to the core product (Finale). I miss the Coda days when there were multiple lines of communication with tech support, and even the early MM days when they had better communication. True, Finale has outlasted many of the notation programs that were out there when I started (anyone remember Nightingale? Encore?). But there are still alternatives, including MuseScore (and even LillyPond has passionate advocates). I don't want to migrate to Dorico (and I've become convinced it's a cult at least to some degree), nor to MuseScore and certainly not Sibelius. I want Finale to get better. I wouldn't start a death watch just yet, but the clock is ticking and there are many things MM could and should do to get people to stick with Finale. They need to not only stop the loss of their user base but also attract new ones. That's not easy to do (Apple is the only recent case I can think of off the top of my head).
You need to explore all the settings available in Silver. I use mostly just the defaults but I did change a couple to more match my requirements. I have always said it is "Almost Perfect Layout". However, what it does is fantastic as far as I am concerned.
As far as JW Accidentals, I think you need to find alternative ways to do it. JW is a dead end I fear.
Agreed.
I really really hope you're wrong about JW. We've been there before-radio silence for a long time when Finale went 64-bit and then magically we had updates. JW Rhythm Copy is the bomb; it's simplified so much of what I do notationally and saved lots of time. I'd hate to lose that.
About the uncertain future of the JW plug-ins, this announcement is definitely good news, as it promises that they will work. As I posted :
Robert Patterson (a well-known developer of plug-ins) has just announced the release of RGP Lua, which is free and can use 99% of the existing Lua scripts. The feedback is very positive.
Please sign in to leave a comment.
41 comments
Date Votes