Triplets in 3/2 time in MusicXML 4.0 imported to PrintMusic

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John Hetland Posted October 24, 2022 01:05

I run Windows 10 and I use PrintMusic to validate the MusicXML 4.0 generated by my own music program. Here is my PrintMusic version: I am having trouble with triplets in 3/2 time. my mickeymouse test file prints like this:
It also generates a MusicXML 4.0 file which, when imported to PrintMusic, is interpreted like this:
As you can see, the triplets in bar 7 are crazy. I will attach my XML file if I can.
Meanwhile here is how bar 7 in part 1 is coded by my program:
<measure number="7">
<note>
<pitch>
<step>B</step>
<alter>-1</alter>
<octave>4</octave>
</pitch>
<duration>16</duration>
<type>quarter</type>
<time-modification>
<actual-notes>9</actual-notes>
<normal-notes>4</normal-notes>
</time-modification>
<notations>
<tuplet type="start" placement="above">
</tuplet>
</notations>
<lyric>
<syllabic>single</syllabic>
<text>O</text>
</lyric>
</note>
<note>
<pitch>
<step>A</step>
<octave>4</octave>
</pitch>
<duration>16</duration>
<type>quarter</type>
<time-modification>
<actual-notes>9</actual-notes>
<normal-notes>4</normal-notes>
</time-modification>
<lyric>
<syllabic>single</syllabic>
<text>O</text>
</lyric>
</note>
<note>
<pitch>
<step>G</step>
<octave>4</octave>
</pitch>
<duration>16</duration>
<type>quarter</type>
<time-modification>
<actual-notes>9</actual-notes>
<normal-notes>4</normal-notes>
</time-modification>
<notations>
<tuplet type="stop"/>
</notations>
<lyric>
<syllabic>single</syllabic>
<text>O</text>
</lyric>
</note>
<note>
<pitch>
<step>G</step>
<octave>4</octave>
</pitch>
<duration>32</duration>
<type>half</type>
<time-modification>
<actual-notes>9</actual-notes>
<normal-notes>4</normal-notes>
</time-modification>
<notations>
<tuplet type="start" placement="above">
</tuplet>
</notations>
<lyric>
<syllabic>single</syllabic>
<text>O</text>
<extend type="start"/>
</lyric>
</note>
<note>
<pitch>
<step>A</step>
<octave>4</octave>
</pitch>
<duration>16</duration>
<type>quarter</type>
<time-modification>
<actual-notes>9</actual-notes>
<normal-notes>4</normal-notes>
</time-modification>
<notations>
<tuplet type="stop"/>
</notations>
<lyric>
<extend type="stop"/>
</lyric>
</note>
<note>
<pitch>
<step>B</step>
<alter>-1</alter>
<octave>4</octave>
</pitch>
<duration>16</duration>
<type>quarter</type>
<time-modification>
<actual-notes>9</actual-notes>
<normal-notes>4</normal-notes>
</time-modification>
<notations>
<tuplet type="start" placement="above">
</tuplet>
</notations>
<lyric>
<syllabic>single</syllabic>
<text>O</text>
<extend type="start"/>
</lyric>
</note>
<note>
<pitch>
<step>A</step>
<octave>4</octave>
</pitch>
<duration>16</duration>
<type>quarter</type>
<time-modification>
<actual-notes>9</actual-notes>
<normal-notes>4</normal-notes>
</time-modification>
<lyric>
<extend type="continue"/>
</lyric>
</note>
<note>
<pitch>
<step>G</step>
<octave>4</octave>
</pitch>
<duration>16</duration>
<type>quarter</type>
<time-modification>
<actual-notes>9</actual-notes>
<normal-notes>4</normal-notes>
</time-modification>
<notations>
<tuplet type="stop"/>
</notations>
<lyric>
<extend type="stop"/>
</lyric>
</note>
<barline/>
</measure>

If I omit the <tuplet> lines completely, the notes are correctly spaced for triplets, but not identified as such. I have done triplets it 2/2 time, but nothing I've tried has made simple triplets in 3/2 time.

Can you help? Thanks, -John Hetland

24 comments

Date Votes

PETER THOMSEN Posted October 24, 2022 02:04

-1

… MusicXML 4.0 generated by my own music program …

It sure looks like your own music program does not export MusicXML correctly.

Just curious:

* What is the name of your own music program?

* Did you develop the music program yourself?

John Hetland Posted October 24, 2022 02:56

It's mostly correct, but it's a work in progress, and as I process more music I find new problems and fix them. But this one I can't fix. I looked at the XML generated by PrintMusic and I see that they moved all three <tuplet type="stop"/> statements to the end of the bar, thus the overlapping 9thlets instead of three triplets.

Yes, I developed the program. I call it MusicPR, but that won't help you. I've been using it to make MusicXML for my CPDL submissions (https://www.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Category:John_Hetland_editions). I'm going in alphabetic order, improving the program as I find problems or opportunities. But now I'm stuck on "In honore summae matris", which has triplets in 3/2 time.

If you're sure my MusicXML is incorrect, can you tell me how I should code the triplets in bar 7 of my test file?

PETER THOMSEN Posted October 24, 2022 02:57

Another thought:

According to your screen shot you are using PrintMusic v2014 (which was released in summer 2013).

But MusicXML v4.0 was released in 2021.

Perhaps your 2014 PrintMusic can not import MusicXML v4.0 correctly.

* have you tried importing the MusicXML 4.0 file into a newer version? Like e. g. the Finale demo?

John Hetland Posted October 24, 2022 03:19

I thought of that. I purchased PrintMusic a couple months ago, so I'm not happy if it's not the latest version. I realize MusicXML 4.0 is still pretty new, but something as basic as a triplet shouldn't go bonkers when interpreted by an older version. I must be doing something wrong, but I can't see what. I'll try the Finale demo.

John Hetland Posted October 24, 2022 03:33

It comes out exactly the same with the Finale Demo.

PETER THOMSEN Posted October 24, 2022 07:50

… If you're sure my MusicXML is incorrect, can you tell me how I should code the triplets in bar 7 of my test file? …

Sorry, but I know too little about MusicXML.

Hopefully one of the MusicXML gurus will chime in.

* Have you contacted the folks in Tech Support?

John Hetland Posted October 24, 2022 13:18

No, I thought this was tech support.

John Hetland Posted October 24, 2022 13:22

I clicked those little arrows in circles in Peter's last reply thinking they were some kind of scrolls. I didn't mean to say Yes and No.

PETER THOMSEN Posted October 24, 2022 15:19

… I thought this was tech support …

We are just Finale users trying to help each other.

To contact Tech Support, use the hyperlink {Submit a request} in the top of this forum.

John Hetland Posted October 24, 2022 15:34

Thanks, I appreciate it. I have made a submission to Tech Support.

MIKE ROSEN Edited October 24, 2022 16:11

I don't think tech support will help you, considering that PrintMusic is close to 10 years old.

Why not just delete the funky triplets, and re-enter them correctly?

John Hetland Posted October 24, 2022 17:08

I'm sure you did that with Finale, not with MusicMXL. No, it isn't a matter of notes entered incorrectly. My MXL is correct, but PrintMusic takes all three "stop" statements and puts them together at the end of the bar.

In duple time, PrintMusic gets it right. Here's how my program prints a test file:

From the same file it generates an XML file which, imported to PrintMusic 2014, produces this:

Notice that bar 2 is correct but bar 7, in 3/2 time, is a mess. This may be a problem in PrintMusic; I'm pretty sure my MusicXML is correct. We'll see.

PrintMusic may be eight years old, but I get the same result with a 30-day free trial of Finale.

J ADRIAN VERKOUTEREN Edited October 24, 2022 23:15

>> My MXL is correct, but PrintMusic takes all three "stop" statements and puts them together at the end of the bar.

Forgive my confusion, but what exactly did you expect to happen here?

I would think a site dealing with Music XML would be more helpful to you.

John Hetland Posted October 25, 2022 14:10

MusicXML is the reason I bought Finale PrintMusic. I thought this was a help site. Now I am in touch with Finale Tech Support, who are being helpful.

MIKE HALLORAN Edited October 25, 2022 18:54

MusicXML is the reason I bought Finale PrintMusic.

So? PrintMusic was discontinued on the Mac six years ago with the introduction of Finale 25. You should not have been able to buy it after then though some reselers were making it available. (PM for Windows was still available for Windows for a few more years). Not only that, it cannot run on the current MacOS nor any of the four that preceded it.

In addition, the latest version of MusicXML that PM supports is v. 3.0. PM never saw version 3.1 introduced with Finale 25.3 (or was it 25.4?) nor MusicXML 4.0 introduced with Finale 27, the current version.

There are no workarounds for this but there is an upgrade path to Finale 27.

I thought this was a help site.

We are users helping other users. None of us are affiliated with MakeMusic. If you become the last PM Mac User standing, then you should help, also. If MM Support is able to help, that's great, but the official word is that they no longer do so.

MIKE ROSEN Posted October 25, 2022 19:05

If you create the triplets on Finale, as I did, can you look at the XML and see how it differs from yours?

John Hetland Posted October 25, 2022 21:49

OK, I tried, and the first problem was that I can't figure out how to change a key signature in midstream. If you could set this in Finale and send me the Finale file and/or the XML from it, I would appreciate it very much:

MIKE ROSEN Posted October 25, 2022 22:33

And independent time signatures, as well? I’m not at all surprised things are wonky. Where do you want the key change?

Drop me an email. My address is encoded in my signature.

J ADRIAN VERKOUTEREN Posted October 25, 2022 23:00

John,

I look at your posted example, and I don't see a change in key signature, much less one mid-stream. How can one help you if you don't show what you want? Perhaps taking Mike up on his offer is your best option (unless MakeMusic is offering help) as Mike knows Print Music as well as everything else.)

MIKE HALLORAN Edited October 25, 2022 23:20

You need to define “midstream”. If you mean mid-measure, Print Music does not support this.

https://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/PrintMusic2014Mac/PrintMusic.htm#search-Key%20signature

While we’re at it, here’s the section on Tuplets.

https://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/PrintMusic2014Mac/PrintMusic.htm#search-Tuplets

PM will open and display Finale files—at least through 2014.5—but if the key signature change (or anything else not supported in PM) does not appear where you expect it, there’s little you can do. One can’t edit PM to insert an unsupported feature.

MIKE HALLORAN Edited October 25, 2022 23:33

I’m looking for your MacOS in any of your posts but you haven’t shared that information. Here are the System Requirements:

PrintMusic 2014.5 for Mac^®

OS X 10.8 - 10.11
Intel Core 2 Duo or better, Intel i3 and above recommended
2 GB of RAM, 4 GB or above recommended for options use of VST sounds (more RAM = more sounds)
800×600 minimum monitor resolution, between 1366×768 and 1920×1080 recommended
Internet connection for download install or CD-ROM drive for CD install
700MB hard drive space required for software and user manual

If you are running Sierra or High Sierra, PM can work but there were definite problems and 2014.5 was not able to resolve them all. Someone did post they were able to get it working over Mojave but many of us who tried were never able to replicate that..

John Hetland Posted October 25, 2022 23:32

I'm sorry, I misspoke. I meant TIME signature, not key signature. By "midstream" I just meant while other parts stay in 2, but at the beginning of a bar. Note the TIME signature change in bar 2 of my test.

MIKE HALLORAN Edited October 25, 2022 23:42

I meant TIME signature, not key signature. By "midstream" I just meant while other parts stay in 2, but at the beginning of a bar.

Thanks for clarifying. I don’t know if PM supports this but here’s where you can find out.

https://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/PrintMusic2014Mac/PrintMusic.htm#search-TIme%20signature

Again, you may need Finale to do what you want. Fortunately, there is upgrade pricing.

https://store.makemusic.com/Store/Upgrade.aspx

John Hetland Posted December 20, 2022 02:36

Two months later, my MusicXML 4.0 can do triplets in triple time, and time signatures at different times in different voices. Thank you all for your help, and for trying to help. -John

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