The elephant in the room is folks like yourself that are the bigger outspoken critics of Finale while espousing the benefits of Dorico and/or Sibelius. Plus condemning plug-ins that cost extra money. You learned Finale at one time and you can learn Sibelius, its not that difficult. Some people use both like my good friend mentioned above since his publisher wants Finale files.

I used to get all the Sibelius demo updates and try them but after a while I found that to be a fruitless time waster. When MuseScore 4 came out I learned it in about two days. You can too. I still have it on my computer with several scores in it. I no longer have any Sibelius since there is no way I would ever switch to it. MuseScore 4 is a hot mess and not even close to being ready for professional looking scores. Its free and that is its best attribute.

Make the switch, my friend, as MM is not going to or is unlikely to change. Be happy for once. But don't be surprised after you make the switch you are still unhappy because of some quirks with them also.

Other than having really good communications with users, frequent innovative updates and a very enthusiastic user base as a result, I'm not espousing any benefits of Dorico, and have no idea what Sibelius brings to the table. As far as plugins, it is kinda unmanageable at times having to figure out which plugin or script I need to use to do something since I have so many of them. I'm not condemning plugins that cost $, but do think it's a bit much to have to purchase a fairly pricey and complicated script to enable a reasonable lack of collisions. I don't love what PL does in many cases, but it can be useful for some of my older scores where I actually do have a lot of markings/dynamics etc (my works from the past many years have few if any markings). But again, why do I need to manually redraw the screen to see certain changes in Page View? Why can't Finale do better in terms of spacing various elements? 

If you just want folks to post here that they are blissfully happy with Finale, that's just not reality. Maybe it's you who is the outlier. You're totally missing the point several of us have made here and in that other Finale Forum, and seem to take any criticism of Finale a bit personally. Just my observation. I'm not responding further-please do not engage in any ad hominem attacks. 

Just re-iterating that my response is that I have worked with all of them, and - as someone who publishes scores of my arrangements as a vocation - I have not yet been presented with a reason to leave Finale. My house style is very particular, and the other three programs are always in the way; Finale's 'blank page' modality is the way any designer or typositor wants to work. Suppressing the design choices all the others impose on my work is exasperating and fruitless. Even Perfect Layout is an annoyance that would take me years to figure out how to bend it to my will, not some of the conventions of music notation that drive me around the bend. I have permanent injuries from rolling my eyes.

As to the UI, T.S. Eliot was wrong. The way forward is not the way back. I hope there's a team in Kendall Square getting a 30-year-old UI up to date, or at least into the current decade. 

(This is actually quite a good thread.)

f you just want folks to post here that they are blissfully happy with Finale, ...

Not at all the purpose for this form is to help users solve "how to's" and of course problems and issues. It is not to promote the features of the free Muse Score 4 or the very costly Sibelius. However, I try to speak the truth about Finale which for the most part a very good music notation program and in my opinion the best in the world. Yes, it is made better by some plug-ins and yes, some do cost. However as stated if you bought all of them they still would not exceed the cost of just Sibelius alone.

We all have already agreed that some things in Finale need to be improved and or updated. OK that is said, done with that. The worse offense being the lack of communication from MM management and I don't see that changing.

... it is kinda unmanageable at times having to figure out which plugin or script I need to use to do something since I have so many of them.

I use about six and I have hot keys to bring them up. Just because there is a plug-in or script does not mean you need it or it will even be of any value as most of them are not.

 I don't love what PL does in many cases, ...

You need to contact Jan Angermüller - Elbsound.studio http://jan@elbsound.studio  He is a very patient man and a good instructor.

Anyone else catch the April 1 edition of Scoring Notes?

https://www.scoringnotes.com/news/new-versions-of-sibelius-finale/

Interesting that it didn’t also make fun of MuseScore’s announced AI infusion into v.5 (long on speculation; no actual details).

Yes I did and then realized the date it was yesterday.

Sad that a clearly fictitious and humorous post of an alleged Finale update is more exciting than reality these days.

Hi Ernest Biggs,
You wrote: "the purpose for this form is to help users solve "how to's" and of course problems and issues. It is not to promote the features of the free Muse Score 4 or the very costly Sibelius."
I agree, but I also think that posting ideas about and discussing how MakeMusic could make Finale once again the flagship of notation programs is a valuable endeavor,. And this starts with comparing it to those programs that have successfully pushed Finale to the side. So, since MakeMusic doesn't seem to invest in such research, I - as a long time Finale user - thought we could inspire them a little to actually get off their sofas and back into the race before it is too late. Again, I don't promote Musescore here, I just point out the fact that it is much more popular among newcomers than Finale. And not just because it is free. I am glad that you are participating in this debate Ernest. You made some really great points.

Thomas,

I could have written your last reply. I am just not certain poking the stick in MM's eye will accomplish anything. They are set on their course forward. Finale notation doesn't not appear to be the main most important thing.

EB

MikeH,

Yup, pretty funny alright and a good enough April 1 joke except the cost of Sibelius in the ad. That may come true!

I also think that posting ideas about and discussing how MakeMusic could make Finale once again the flagship of notation programs is a valuable endeavor,

in Feature Requests, I agree. Here? Ernie is right.

the purpose for this form is to help users solve "how to's" and of course problems and issues. It is not to promote the features of the free Muse Score 4 or the very costly Sibelius.

Sure, but do they read it? Still, I'll leave my 2c there.

I've been told by MM support that they do read it, but whether it gets acted upon is of course going to be variable. My issue with posting suggestions on that forum is that too many users tend to be dismissive. It really shouldn't be a user forum; it should be a forum where folks from MM development/support can weigh in based on a suggestion from a user and then ask questions if needed of that user. Every time I post a potential enhancement I have gotten shot down, dismissed, etc because "x plugin might be able to accomplish the same thing" or "is this function really needed?" Not every suggestion is going to be as meaningful as others, but that's really for MM to decide, not us users. 

Personally, I am fine with people posting something here in comparison to the other software programs. 

Not to beat a dead horse, but this is how easily Finale is dismissed on some other forums, including input from at least one former Finale user. The average person, I suspect, perceives Finale as old, hard to use, and meh. Recommend me a notation software please!

I have gotten shot down, dismissed, etc because "x plugin might be able to accomplish the same thing" ...

Why? Because for the most part plug-ins do nothing that Finale can't do. They simply automate it. By the same token other software's also use plug-ins for the exact same reason. You should be thinking of a plug-in as a keystroke saver or mouse click saver.